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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women kicking off at Wembley - protest at England vs Ireland Men's Match this Sunday

69 replies

fromorbit · 11/11/2024 19:05

The FA's suspension of a girl for the "crime" of knowing what a man looks like and wondering why he is in her football team is being protested this Sunday. Details:

On Sunday we will be outside Wembley Stadium from 1.30 pm onwards. Please come down and enjoy an afternoon of telling FA that women will not tolerate men in women’s football. Not at grassroots level, not at elite level. Defiance and laughter guaranteed.

Keep an eye on the 12o5 account on twitter for where the protestors are meeting up. Women's Football is coming home folks.
https://x.com/twelve0fiveUK

Protest planned at England vs Ireland over female teenager’s transgender comment ban
Action group hoping to convince Martina Navratilova to help promote their cause

Hundreds of women are planning a protest at England’s Nations League game against the Republic of Ireland over the banning of a teenage female footballer who asked a “bearded” transgender opponent: “Are you a man?”
A group calling itself Twelve O Five is behind the proposed Wembley demonstration amid growing outrage over a six-match suspension imposed last month by a national serious case panel on a 17-year-old with suspected autism, who wept upon being grilled about her comments last month.
The action has been called for 1.30pm, before Sunday’s 5pm kick-off, with organisers expecting hundreds to attend in protest against the teenager’s ban, which began on Monday, and the Football Association’s policy of allowing those born male to play in women’s football.
Hundreds of women attended a demonstration organised by the same group at the German Embassy in London on November 1 in opposition to the country’s recent law change criminalising the misgendering of transgender people. Similar action took place on the same day outside the nation’s embassies worldwide.
The group behind the London protest adopted the name Twelve O Five, meaning five past midnight, in reference to what they say is a German maxim about something already being too late to prevent.
One of its leaders, Jean Hatchet, told Telegraph Sport: “It’s blatantly unfair to put so much pressure on a girl so young and expect her to defend herself.
“So, as women, as stronger women in better positions to oppose this unfairness, we feel that we have to do something. We’re hoping to pull big figures in. Martina Navratilova has agreed to help promote. We’re hoping that kind of attention will get quite a lot of people down there.
“We’ll have a big banner, we’re going to have a megaphone, we’re going to have leaflets. So we’re just going to hit as many fans as possible and get them to pay attention. Because I think that’s the only way we can get the FA to look closely at how they’ve been manipulated.
“Our aim overall is to reverse the policy that the FA has in place.”
The girl whose plight has triggered Sunday’s protest will miss her club’s next two matches, with the remaining four games of her ban suspended for a year.
Her identity has been concealed by Telegraph Sport as she is a child and on the assessment pathway for autism.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/11/wembley-protests-england-vs-ireland-over-trans-footballer/

If you can't make it then do your bit by writing to your MP and the Sports Minister and asking them why the FA is allowing unfair matches across the UK. If you wanted to played mixed sex football teams are available.

Protest planned at England vs Ireland over female teenager’s transgender comment ban

Action group hoping to convince Martina Navratilova to help promote their cause

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/11/wembley-protests-england-vs-ireland-over-trans-footballer

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BonfireLady · 16/11/2024 11:15

MelodyMalone · 16/11/2024 09:46

The talksport clip isn't working for me. But very well said, David Triesman.

If you click on the blue "T" underneath it, it works. That's the link.

(It took me a little while to figure that out!)

fromorbit · 17/11/2024 18:46

Great turn out and most of the men football fans were supportive of women's sports.

Footage.

Report from GB news
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1858177672259535269

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OP posts:
fromorbit · 17/11/2024 18:50

This is just the beginning the next demo is England vs Switzerland they will keep going till women's football is allowed again.

FA braced for further protests as hundreds march on Wembley for teenager banned in transgender row
Second protest at England Women’s game expected over six-match suspension for 17-year-old with suspected autism

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.fo/2024.11.17-170255/www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/17/fa-braced-protest-march-wembley-teenager-banned-transgender" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.fo/2024.11.17-170255/www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/17/fa-braced-protest-march-wembley-teenager-banned-transgender/

OP posts:
fromorbit · 17/11/2024 19:07

That archive link is broken sorry:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/17/fa-braced-protest-march-wembley-teenager-banned-transgender/

OP posts:
HaveYouActuallyDoneAnyWashingThisWeekMum · 17/11/2024 19:41

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 13/11/2024 08:04

Thanks for posting Jean's latest post, it certainly was blistering and about time too. Get men the fuck out of women's sport. 🤬 Women make some noise.

Couldn’t agree more.

HaveYouActuallyDoneAnyWashingThisWeekMum · 17/11/2024 19:42

Thank you for the update @fromorbit

Glamourreader · 17/11/2024 20:32

Thank you to all who took part ❤️

Leafstamp · 17/11/2024 20:57

Oh I’m glad there is a thread about this, I couldn’t see it earlier and started a new one.

There’s also a petition www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/5211467-tell-the-fa-to-ban-men-from-womens-football?reply=139885492

lcakethereforeIam · 18/11/2024 00:43

The Telegraph have reported on it

https://archive.ph/iFVVX

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/17/fa-braced-protest-march-wembley-teenager-banned-transgender/

Apparently

An FA spokesperson said: “Millions of people play grassroots football every week and we are proud of the many opportunities that are available to those who wish to play and enjoy the game. We understand that this is a complex matter, and we are very aware and respectful of strong views on all sides. This particular case was heard by an independent National Serious Case Panel, and they issued a sanction for a breach of FA rules.

“However, considering the ongoing public discussion – which has included some inaccurate information – it is important to note that the sanction was for two matches only, with an additional four matches suspended. If the details of the case had been limited to those currently in the public domain, it is highly likely that no sanction would have been issued at all. We have said previously that this is a complex case, all the facts are not in the public domain, and we are unable to publish more detail due to the age of one of the people involved.”

So, the FA are going with 'not us Guv' as, I believe, the organisation Kick it Out(?) is also running with (iirc they were the ones who passed the complaint on to the FA in the first place). There's also some mysterious facts that unfortunately or conveniently, depending on your point of view, may never be known further. Facts that somehow escaped the attention of the Referee who was actually present at the incident. It's a two match suspension that, at the moment, is only identifying as a six match suspension.

BonfireLady · 18/11/2024 06:37

lcakethereforeIam · 18/11/2024 00:43

The Telegraph have reported on it

https://archive.ph/iFVVX

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/11/17/fa-braced-protest-march-wembley-teenager-banned-transgender/

Apparently

An FA spokesperson said: “Millions of people play grassroots football every week and we are proud of the many opportunities that are available to those who wish to play and enjoy the game. We understand that this is a complex matter, and we are very aware and respectful of strong views on all sides. This particular case was heard by an independent National Serious Case Panel, and they issued a sanction for a breach of FA rules.

“However, considering the ongoing public discussion – which has included some inaccurate information – it is important to note that the sanction was for two matches only, with an additional four matches suspended. If the details of the case had been limited to those currently in the public domain, it is highly likely that no sanction would have been issued at all. We have said previously that this is a complex case, all the facts are not in the public domain, and we are unable to publish more detail due to the age of one of the people involved.”

So, the FA are going with 'not us Guv' as, I believe, the organisation Kick it Out(?) is also running with (iirc they were the ones who passed the complaint on to the FA in the first place). There's also some mysterious facts that unfortunately or conveniently, depending on your point of view, may never be known further. Facts that somehow escaped the attention of the Referee who was actually present at the incident. It's a two match suspension that, at the moment, is only identifying as a six match suspension.

Yes, when I first read the FA statement, my natural inclination was to think "Hmmm. OK. Maybe there is more to the story that I hadn't considered".

However, I then gave my head a wobble and realised that this simply makes no sense. As you say, the referee was there in an official capacity, oversaw it all and said nothing was wrong.

It's a two match suspension that, at the moment, is only identifying as a six match suspension.

Yep. Just as the FA is identifying as fair.

borntobequiet · 18/11/2024 07:43

“we are unable to publish more detail due to the age of one of the people involved”

The fucking bare faced cheek of them.

PurpleSparkledPixie · 18/11/2024 09:13

it is important to note that the sanction was for two matches only, with an additional four matches suspended.

Can someone translate that into English for me please?

MarieDeGournay · 18/11/2024 10:05

PurpleSparkledPixie · 18/11/2024 09:13

it is important to note that the sanction was for two matches only, with an additional four matches suspended.

Can someone translate that into English for me please?

I think it means that the standard sanction for an 'offence' at that level would be four matches, but in a stunning display of clemency they cut that to two matches.
If it's the same as suspended sentences in the law, I think you have to behave or the other bits will come back into force.

Presumably the 'under age' person involved can - with the support of her parents - state that they are happy for all the facts to be revealed?

Regarding the protest at the match yesterday: it would have been great had the England team decided to forfeit the match in advance of kick-off as a gesture of support... or walked off the pitch at about the 48th minute....
What? Me? an Irish supporter? wherever did you get that idea???😭😄

Downerthanishouldbe · 18/11/2024 12:23

Did you mean the standard sanction would be six matches @MarieDeGournay?

Yes, I think it must be like a suspended sentence in law.
I wonder under what conditions would they decide to enforce the ban on the further 4 matches? Is she supposed to ‘behave’ now and what exactly does that entail?

fromorbit · 18/11/2024 14:22

Long BBC article on this it is actually.... quite good

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cvgk0w726w1o

Goes so far to cover incidences of trans players injuring girls and the wider debate.

I think these ongoing protests are going to have an impact. Keep kicking off everyone.

FA logo flag at Wembley

Football's transgender policy in focus after protest outside Wembley

A protest over the Football Association's transgender inclusion policy takes place outside Wembley - what is the background?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cvgk0w726w1o

OP posts:
borntobequiet · 18/11/2024 14:29

Gosh that is unusually balanced and sane. I wonder how long it will last?

Igmum · 18/11/2024 14:56

Thank you to all who took part ❤️ and gorblimey to a reasonable article from the BBC. Wonders will never cease.

Shortshriftandlethal · 18/11/2024 15:21

There seems still to be this argument that because "there are only 70" trans identified males playing in women's football it doesn't matter.

biddyboo · 18/11/2024 16:25

borntobequiet · 18/11/2024 14:29

Gosh that is unusually balanced and sane. I wonder how long it will last?

Dan Roan, to be fair, does try to be quite balanced on this issue.

cariadlet · 18/11/2024 19:01

I seem to be in a minority because I think that the bbc article was rubbish.

It didn't call the protesters a bunch of bigoted anti-trans nazis which was a start. But it's framed as being about trans rights.
It's about women's rights; free speech (punished for asking a question); keeping MEN out of women's sports.

Why no statement from the girl's mum.
Why no vox pops from the many fans outside the stadium?
Why talk about people being banned from playing sport when no one is asking for that (only to play im the team that corresponds to their sex?

Having said all that, please click on the article and scroll to the bottom to boost engagement. It will affect the algorithm and show bbc sport that people are interested. Encourage women in your networks to do the same.

Snowypeaks · 18/11/2024 19:29

cariadlet · 18/11/2024 19:01

I seem to be in a minority because I think that the bbc article was rubbish.

It didn't call the protesters a bunch of bigoted anti-trans nazis which was a start. But it's framed as being about trans rights.
It's about women's rights; free speech (punished for asking a question); keeping MEN out of women's sports.

Why no statement from the girl's mum.
Why no vox pops from the many fans outside the stadium?
Why talk about people being banned from playing sport when no one is asking for that (only to play im the team that corresponds to their sex?

Having said all that, please click on the article and scroll to the bottom to boost engagement. It will affect the algorithm and show bbc sport that people are interested. Encourage women in your networks to do the same.

I agree with you.

BonfireLady · 18/11/2024 19:33

cariadlet · 18/11/2024 19:01

I seem to be in a minority because I think that the bbc article was rubbish.

It didn't call the protesters a bunch of bigoted anti-trans nazis which was a start. But it's framed as being about trans rights.
It's about women's rights; free speech (punished for asking a question); keeping MEN out of women's sports.

Why no statement from the girl's mum.
Why no vox pops from the many fans outside the stadium?
Why talk about people being banned from playing sport when no one is asking for that (only to play im the team that corresponds to their sex?

Having said all that, please click on the article and scroll to the bottom to boost engagement. It will affect the algorithm and show bbc sport that people are interested. Encourage women in your networks to do the same.

But it's framed as being about trans rights.
It's about women's rights; free speech (punished for asking a question); keeping MEN out of women's sports

Fair point.

On balance, it's a good article but you're right.

It feels a bit like we'll look back on this particular case one day with the same wide eyed disbelief as we do at the footage of the 1967 Boston marathon, where Kathrine Switzer is manhandled by the race director in his attempt to get her out of the race.

This is a great quote which shows how ridiculous public opinion was at the time:

"The perceptions of women back when I was running - amazingly enough just 53 years ago - were that you were going to get big legs, grow hair on your chest, your uterus was going to fall out," she told Sky Sports News.
"And it was widely perceived that it was really quite socially objectionable for women to participate in sports because they looked arduous. It looked like they were working hard, they were sweating.

We're now at a different turning point of ridiculous opinion: that (transwo)men can become women for the purpose of football..or any other purpose that they state. It won't be long before enough people are wondering why they thought (bearded transwo)men playing against women was ever considered safe and fair.

The equivalent to the way the FA story is positioned would be something like the "the Boston marathon was interrupted by a protester but the race finished without further incident".

Here's where the quote is from:

https://www.skysports.com/more-sports/athletics/news/29175/12475824/kathrine-switzer-first-woman-to-officially-run-boston-marathon-on-the-iconic-moment-she-was-attacked-by-the-race-organiser

Kathrine Switzer: First woman to officially run Boston Marathon on the iconic moment she was attacked by the race organiser

Kathrine Switzer was involved in an iconic moment at the 1967 Boston Marathon; she was attacked by race director Jock Semple who tried to throw her out while she was running, but the pair later became good friends; Switzer explains how that day revolut...

https://www.skysports.com/more-sports/athletics/news/29175/12475824/kathrine-switzer-first-woman-to-officially-run-boston-marathon-on-the-iconic-moment-she-was-attacked-by-the-race-organiser

cariadlet · 18/11/2024 19:55

@BonfireLady Great analogy.
If you haven't heard it, listen to series 5, episode 14 of the Cautionary Tales podcast (Run, Switzer, run). You'll enjoy it.