Sam Harris

[MotherEarthisaTerf]

Wow! Sam Harris’ latest podcast called The Reckoning.

Right out of the gate, only a few minutes in he is blaming the Democrat defeat at the doors of those who swallowed the TRA movement and pushed it repeatedly.

I was going to quote it but he’s talking about it for so long (women’s sports, social conditioning etc)

it’s worth a listen. He’s considered to be neutral, intelligent, left leaning and very well respected

www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/391-the-reckoning

This is my point. How is it possible to have a middle ground in a concept where we are pretending people can change sex?

What do you think the middle ground can look like?

"This is my point. How is it possible to have a middle ground in a concept where we are pretending people can change sex?

What do you think the middle ground can look like?"

Completely disaggregating sex from gender, upholding single sex spaces and ensuring gender non conforming people (whatever that means if you disaggregate sex from gender) aren't discriminated against and can navigate the world without being vilified for how they choose to present themselves

Is there a middle ground?

That's not a middle ground.

The men want to be seen as women, not feminine men. They need to be grouped with women, and making up a category of gender will lead to this.

If trans exists legally, there needs to be a legal grouping of 'women and TW' and 'men and TM' for the trans to mean anything.

If women are grouped with men who want to be women, thats forcing trans ideology onto women.

He was talking about this before the election too.

Completely disaggregating sex from gender, upholding single sex spaces and ensuring gender non conforming people (whatever that means if you disaggregate sex from gender) aren't discriminated against and can navigate the world without being vilified for how they choose to present themselves

Yes - the 'middle ground' is in reality, of course, what actual gc feminists advocated before it became a weird polarised left/right issue.

What is a legal gender? What words would be used to describe the genders?

I totally agree there should be no vilification, mocking or meanness directed at those who don’t want to present in stereotypical ways (annoyingly we had that from the bloody 1980s without any issue!) - “call yourself what you want, wear what you want, sleep with any consenting adult that’ll have you” definitely applies. I do fear there will be a backlash on people like this and gay people in particular as they’ve been lumped into LBGT. Hope not, but I’m not optimistic.

Some are happy. I listened to Blaire White interview on heretics/Andrew Gold - "I know I'm not a woman" I'm sure he's not the only one

A few.

It's notable BW is gay, not AGP.

But also, I think BW is more and more seeing his transition as a response to trauma, and I really wonder if he won't come to the conclusion it might have been better to address the trauma that start of the never-ending road of attempting to sculpt himself into a pseudo-woman.

It's not good health care mentally or otherwise.

He must believe he fits some description of woman to use the women's toilets.

I totally agree there should be no vilification, mocking or meanness directed at those who don’t want to present in stereotypical ways

You say that, but OTOH I feel strongly that mocking (pointing and laughing, literally and metaphorically) should not be a crime.

He seems happy, from what I listened to. Of course, only he knows

He does talk about that. Where available, he says he uses unisex, where not, he uses "ladies" because using "gents" would be worse. He does look feminine.
Also, he says he'll never use a female space where people would be exposed - like changing rooms

Yes - the 'middle ground' is in reality, of course, what actual gc feminists advocated before it became a weird polarised left/right issue.

@ErrolTheDragon

Pretty much this. I understand that the middle ground cannot be accepted by TRA because of course, it’s literal violence.

But I am dreaming of a world where we uphold sex segregated spaces, secure funding for women and girls provision in charities, health care etc. Make women’s sports biological women only.

I feel closer to this world than I ever have once I got peaked. And I can go back to asking people to “be kind” (not really, but you know what I mean)

That's the middle ground between American trans-trenders/TRAs and the American right.

In the UK it's just the GC position as it stands.

Polling is showing that the number 1 issue for voters who swung to Trump was the trans issue.

Not the number one issue for most voters, which was inflation and then immigration, 'culture issues' were,third.

But number 1 for the voters that swung to him.
This is huge. It won him the election.

I got this from Megyn Kelly yesterday. She also brilliantly credits all the women who fought this for years who forced trump to do it and who changed her mind.
And most of them are British 😁!

Sorry I don't know how far in it is, you'll have to listen to find it. But it's Big News. For politicians everywhere

x.com/megynkelly/status/1856162987435757932?t=znDpyv2A8SfGkSPi72nNlg&s=09

Megyn Kelly in that podcast also talks interestingly on how the left is splitting into those like Sam Harris who see they've lost the plot on gender and need to course correct and those who won't allow them because they're in too deep. They will continue to police the language the left has allowed them to label as bigoted.

She describes it as they've built their own prison by going along with the madness, given the madman the keys and allowed themselves to be locked in.

Bloody hell

I really hope not, lesbians in particular have been very vocal on this issue. I've had friends who have been told they're actually straight men because they have short hair and are SSA!

Starts at 45 minutes.

I don't think you should be optimistic. It's crystal clear that the shift against gender non conformity is in the ascendancy. I also dispute that we had it in the 80s without issue. Sure, we can look back at Annie Lennox and Boy George etc messing with make up & androgyny, but this notion that everyone was loosey goosey chill about it is really not the case.
I think a lot of liberal GC people are in for a very rude awakening if they seriously think acceptance of gender non conformity is part of the endgame for those who voted for Trump's America. His stated intentions about ending 'gender affirming care' have been welcomed with relief by many who are concerned about puberty blockers and so on, but that same set of intentions that will insist there are only two genders and banning the suggestion that transition is possible also talks about focusing on 'the nuclear family' and mothers and fathers. Anyone who thinks that's not going to be all about traditional conservative gender is painfully naive.

That was always the trade-off here. It's been said by so many that the reason to go with conservative political alliances is because even if they hate women, they know what one is, so you can still fight for women and other liberal perspectives. Well, now's the time. Conservatives hold all the reins now. They will certainly put a stop to puberty blockers and so on. So that's objective achieved. But they're not going to stop there, and they never were. Feels like it's time for left leaning gender critical campaigners to examine how they plan to enact the 'no vilification, mocking or meanness towards those who don't present in stereotypical ways', particularly those who are also not heterosexual. I'm also not hopeful that's going to happen.

I agree that conservatives do hold the reins now. Gender-critical thought began with feminists on the left and centre-left. It's now been taken over, to a large extent, by the far right. It's very sad, but the left have only themselves to blame for this. They have spent the past 7 or 8 years hurling the most vile and disgusting abuse at gender-critical feminists, refusing to listen to us, shutting us down, getting us kicked out of our jobs and off social media platforms.

Ultimately it was obvious that the right would occupy the space vacated by the left, and because the right has far more money and power, they were able to make this issue their own.

What the left should do now is spend some time reflecting on where they went wrong, make a heartfelt apology to the women they've vilified, and start again.

Guess what? I'm not going to hold my breath.

Well yes there is an intersting discussion to be had about the extent to which gender non conformity should be encouraged or tolerated in society. And I think the right would differ from the left in viewing encouraging conformity to societal norms in children as generally good for them, and the left would be of a more let every child freely express themselves position.

It will come to an interesting debate on how you view children and childhood and differing views and parental practices on that should be expected and accepted.

I'm not sure why you are so afraid of disagrememnt once we've all achieved and agreed it's marvellous thing that at least children are now not medicalised and women have their rights protected? I'm happy to disagree after that, bring it on, happy days.

And I personally am really not worried about the rights of those poor men who just want to wear dresses not to be ridiculed in the future, in fact I think what's been revealed is that societal norms have an important constraning role on men's abuse.

But let's not get ahead of oursleves. let's get the rights in law protected before we worry and argue about the sad men who just want to wear a wig and lipstick.

And I personally am really not worried about the rights of those poor men who just want to wear dresses not to be ridiculed in the future, in fact I think what's been revealed is that societal norms have an important constraining role on men's abuse.

This.