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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

US Election results

529 replies

IwantToRetire · 06/11/2024 01:26

Kamala Harris 27
45.2% popular vote
12,768,875 votes

Donald Trump 99
53.8% popular vote
15,275,564 votes

270 to win

U.S. election results 2024 | CBC News

6/11/2024 @ 01:25 GMT

U.S. election results 2024

Get live results from the U.S. presidential race between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. See if the Democrats or Republicans win control of the House and the Senate.

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/us/2024/results/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
duc748 · 10/11/2024 20:05

Maybe voters looked at California (Democrat flagship State? 😛), and didn't like what they saw?

IwantToRetire · 10/11/2024 20:30

Apparently all votes now counted (had been said it wouldn't be until Tuesday?)

So these are the updated figures. Unless of course there is some legal challenge and there are recounts.

Kamala Harris 226 - Electoral College (42%)
48.0% popular vote
70,979,779 popular votes

Donald Trump 312 - Electoral College (58%)
50.5% popular vote
74,708,357 popular votes

270 to win - Electoral College
(there are 538 in total)
If electoral college was representative of popular vote it would be
Harris 258, Trump 272 rather than final outcome of
Harris 226, Trump 312

Source https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/us/2024/results/

Those missing 8 million Democrats won it for Trump!

He only got 484,038 more votes than he got in 2020.

So no the American public has not swung to the extreme right.

But with the Republicans in control of both Houses and the White House who knows what will happen.

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IwantToRetire · 10/11/2024 20:45

Sorry, but just to be a bit nerdy the other group that did shift to Trump was the catergory "other".

Have been unable to find a definitive definition of who this is, but it seems to include:
Asian
Multiple Races
American Indian/Alaska Native
Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander

Of which the largest group (and growing) is Asian. But I think this word has a different meaning in the US, to how we use it in the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Americans

Anyhow, this group as a whole swung towards Trump by 12%.

Again not making much of a difference to the total, but certainly not reflected in MSM reporting.

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Lalgarh · 10/11/2024 20:54

Asian American can also now increasingly cover Arab origin?

News channels in India refer to what western media call the "middle East" as West Asia

TempestTost · 10/11/2024 23:16

IwantToRetire · 10/11/2024 20:01

I think its worth remembering that viewing through the prism of our own priorities isn't always the best analysis.

On a very small level the number of young people voting Democrat reduced, whilst the older age group increased.

On the basis of comments on FWR implying all about young people have been captured and older people knowing the reality of biological sex, then you would think the numbers would be reversed. ie lots of young people supporting GI politics and older voters alienated.

The biggest change in voting (apart from the 11 million democrats who couldn't be bothered to vote), was the Latino/Hispanic men, some of whom are now saying they dont care about the racist characterisation of them being drug dealing rapists, what they want is a low state free enterprise system. (Some commentators who may or may not be right, say that recent migrants to the US fear the experience of "communist" regimes in their country of origin far more than load mouth bigoted racist statements by publicity hungry entertainers.)

I think apart from the smug we are so left we are always right attitude of some Democrats, the big problem was that the party system failed.

I heard one quite senior democrat saying that basically they thought Biden would stay and get elected and then either become too ill or even die so that they Harris could just step into the post of President.

In taking this gamble, and not bothering with primaries (is that the right term?), some existing Democrats felt taken for granted, snubbed or whatever, by the establishment.

So 11 million chosing not to vote Democrat maybe as much about that. Presumably even if they had doubts that a Black Woman could get elected they would turn out to vote to try and make it happen. But they chose not to vote. Chose to risk Trump getting in.

Why?

Edited

What do you mean they don't care about the racist characterization of them?

There has long been a section of the Hispanic community, particularly in Miami, who are extremely suspicious of anything that looks like socialism, which makes a lot of sense if you remember they or their parents fled places like Cuba and Venezuela. Ted Cruz's parents, for example, were Cubans.

duc748 · 10/11/2024 23:33

Somebody has to take the blame for Ted Cruz!

RedToothBrush · 11/11/2024 00:08

IwantToRetire · 10/11/2024 20:45

Sorry, but just to be a bit nerdy the other group that did shift to Trump was the catergory "other".

Have been unable to find a definitive definition of who this is, but it seems to include:
Asian
Multiple Races
American Indian/Alaska Native
Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander

Of which the largest group (and growing) is Asian. But I think this word has a different meaning in the US, to how we use it in the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Americans

Anyhow, this group as a whole swung towards Trump by 12%.

Again not making much of a difference to the total, but certainly not reflected in MSM reporting.

Be nerdy. I appreciate even if no one else does!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/nov/10/labour-advisers-want-lessons-learned-from-harris-defeat-voters-set-the-agenda?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1731273779

Another guardian article. This time focused on the economy but it suggests that Labour strategists are playing VERY close attention to this.

On this side of the Atlantic, that lesson is already being learned. It has meant the unceremonial ditching of the language of Starmer’s first “mission” on the economy. It wasn’t working. No voter wants to hear about the highest growth in the G7, they want to hear about the price of a Tesco shop.

Another example UK strategists cite is the number of jobs that Biden’s administration created. But for those already in a low-paid job, that statistic was completely irrelevant. It sounded like bragging. It did nothing to help their day-to-day costs.

And the campaign had another lesson the party wants to hammer home to its activists and MPs – that voters will set the agenda, not politicians.

In the US, polls repeatedly suggested the top two issues for voters were the economy and immigration. “Then you need to talk about the economy and immigration,” one strategist said. “The Labour party had a habit in the past of saying, ‘Oh no, we don’t want to talk about those issues. We want to try and make the election about a different question’.

“No matter how hard the Democrats tried to make it about something else, whether it was about reproductive freedom or anything else, that wasn’t what voters had front and centre of their minds going into the election.”

There's definitely something there to look at closely.

The grassroots matter and the Dems fucked up by not listening hard enough.

Labour advisers want lessons learned from Harris defeat: voters set the agenda

Focusing on joy over voters’ concerns about economy was Harris campaign’s downfall, some Labour insiders say

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/nov/10/labour-advisers-want-lessons-learned-from-harris-defeat-voters-set-the-agenda?CMP=twt_gu#Echobox=1731273779

IwantToRetire · 11/11/2024 00:17

What do you mean they don't care about the racist characterization of them?

They dont care when compared to what they perceive to be the economic advantages of a Trump presidency. They may just think talking like that is just typically American. But what they see as potential business opportunity took prioriy.

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TempestTost · 11/11/2024 00:21

IwantToRetire · 11/11/2024 00:17

What do you mean they don't care about the racist characterization of them?

They dont care when compared to what they perceive to be the economic advantages of a Trump presidency. They may just think talking like that is just typically American. But what they see as potential business opportunity took prioriy.

You are saying that they think Trump is characterizing them in a racist way and don't care?

TempestTost · 11/11/2024 00:27

Lalgarh · 10/11/2024 20:54

Asian American can also now increasingly cover Arab origin?

News channels in India refer to what western media call the "middle East" as West Asia

No I have never heard that in North America. TYpically:

Asian means from east Asia - China, Japan, Korea, etc.

Middle Eastern, or Arab more often, means from the Middle East.

Indian or East Indian means from India - sometimes countries near India are pulled into it in a general way, but not usually if someone's country of origin is known for sure.

You may or may not hear people with a turban called Sikhs, it's common but may depend where you are. Quite recently I've started to hear Sikhs called Punjabis, but I suspect you would find that mainly in large cities.

IwantToRetire · 11/11/2024 00:27

TempestTost · 11/11/2024 00:21

You are saying that they think Trump is characterizing them in a racist way and don't care?

For heavens sake, surely I dont have to spell it out. It was all over every sort of media.

The so called comedian who spoke at a Trump rally.

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TempestTost · 11/11/2024 00:35

IwantToRetire · 11/11/2024 00:27

For heavens sake, surely I dont have to spell it out. It was all over every sort of media.

The so called comedian who spoke at a Trump rally.

Ah.

I think a lot of people didn't take that very seriously.

It seems to be a certain group of people who are very inclined to become offended at people poking fun. A lot of other regular people seem much more inclined to use that kind of humour, across cultural lines in my experience. Men a lot more than women.

A lot of people who left places like Mexico, or South America, did so because of problems in those countries. One of my employees moved just a few years ago from South America, and while he loves many elements of his culture, he also is open that there are a lot of problem, and specifically around criminality which is why he and his wife left.

So it might not be so strange they don't care a lot about a comic. Even Jon Stewart who is very right on didn't really care.

IwantToRetire · 11/11/2024 00:39

So it might not be so strange they don't care a lot about a comic. Even Jon Stewart who is very right on didn't really care.

Maybe not just the comic, but the language of those who are fixated on "illegal immigrantsswarmng across the borders" who are often spoken of as being criminals, etc., etc..

My quote was from a tv interview where the UK reported was asking in astonishment why the vote for Trump had increased so dramatically among Hispanic/Latino men.

OP posts:
TempestTost · 11/11/2024 00:50

IwantToRetire · 11/11/2024 00:39

So it might not be so strange they don't care a lot about a comic. Even Jon Stewart who is very right on didn't really care.

Maybe not just the comic, but the language of those who are fixated on "illegal immigrantsswarmng across the borders" who are often spoken of as being criminals, etc., etc..

My quote was from a tv interview where the UK reported was asking in astonishment why the vote for Trump had increased so dramatically among Hispanic/Latino men.

Quite a lot of American people who are Hispanic don't like massive illegal border crossings either, and are worried that some of those people may be criminals.

In fact because a lot of those border areas have a very high Hispanic population, they are among those who are being very negatively impacted by border issues.

IwantToRetire · 11/11/2024 00:51

According the wikipedia page there is a big difference between how ordinary people speak as opposed to official Government categories. That's why I said there is a difference between US and UK usage. I got "told off" by an American for using the word Asian to cover India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka. In her opinion that was South East Asian.

Anyhow, as this is about Government classifications, as this is how votes have been grouped, here is the wikipedia entry showing how the word has evolved in use.

Some Central Asian, ancestries, including Afghan, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Tajik, Turkmen, and Uzbek, were previously recognized as "White' but have since been designated as Asian as of 2023. The "Asian" census category includes people who indicate their race(s) on the census as "Asian" or reported entries such as "Chinese, Indian, Bangladeshi, Filipino, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Korean, Japanese, Pakistani, Malaysian, and Other Asian". In 2020, Americans who identified as Asian alone (19,886,049) or in combination with other races made up 7.2% of the US population.

Chinese, Indian, and Filipino Americans make up the largest share of the Asian American population with 5.5 million, 5.2 million, and 4.6 million people respectively. These numbers equal 23%, 20%, and 18% of the total Asian American population, or 1.5%, 1.2%, and 1.2% of the total US population.

the American definition of 'Asian' originally included West Asian ethnic groups, particularly Turkish Americans, Armenian Americans, Assyrian Americans, Iranian Americans, Kurdish Americans, Jewish Americans of Middle Eastern descent, and certain Arab Americans, although in modern times, these groups are now considered Middle Eastern American and grouped under White Americans in the census

The term "Asian American" was coined by historian-activists Yuji Ichioka and Emma Gee in 1968 during the founding of the Asian American Political Alliance, and they were also credited with popularizing the term, which meant to be used to frame a new "inter-ethnic-pan-Asian American self-defining political group". This effort was part of New Left anti-war and anti-imperialist activism, directly opposing what was viewed as an unjust Vietnam War.

Today, "Asian American" is the accepted term for most formal purposes, such as government and academic research, although it is often shortened to Asian in common usage. The most commonly used definition of Asian American is the US Census Bureau definition, which includes all people with origins in East Asia, South Asia, and Southeast Asia. This is chiefly because the census definitions determine many governmental classifications, notably for equal opportunity programs and measurements.

So for the purposes of the recent election, this is a group that also increased its / their vote for Trump.

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IwantToRetire · 11/11/2024 00:53

In fact because a lot of those border areas have a very high Hispanic population, they are among those who are being very negatively impacted by border issues.

I think this came up in the interview I mentioned. That for those who are second or more generation, they are concerned. But I dont remember the reported asking a follow up question as to why.

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Lalgarh · 11/11/2024 01:20

Ooh west Asians include Armenian Americans. That's the Kardashians.

By the way, this chat about Asian Americans, and a chat elsewhere on how much a particular outlook on race relations, as it used to be known, reminds me of this tweet from the Biden appointed US envoy to Taliban led Afghanistan.

This of course is after Biden withdrew and left the Talibs to run wild after implementing a deal signed off by Trump.

Do Afghan women need #BlackGirlMagic? Teach me (solidarity fist emoji)

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitAmericansSay/comments/1143f41/areafghansfamiliarwithblackgirlmagic/

It's all there. The amorphous slogan of some vague, possibly mysterious quality that an oppressed group have, the self conscious overt checking of privilege by offering herself up to be educated, the tagging in of suitably FABULOUS DIVAS (TM) on social media

TempestTost · 11/11/2024 03:18

IwantToRetire · 11/11/2024 00:53

In fact because a lot of those border areas have a very high Hispanic population, they are among those who are being very negatively impacted by border issues.

I think this came up in the interview I mentioned. That for those who are second or more generation, they are concerned. But I dont remember the reported asking a follow up question as to why.

You can find lots of people talking about this themselves around the internet. Many of them are first generation newcomers.

Their reasons seem pretty much the same as everyone else.

LilyBartsHatShop · 11/11/2024 07:35

Thanks for the link to the Kenan Malik article, @Theeyeballsinthesky.
I think he's great, would hate to have missed his analysis, but I no longer browse the Guardian site.
Consistent with what Kenan writes, I think the reason the trans rights movement is so attractive to wealthy students who want to get involved in social justice activism is that they can do it all without having to leave their upper middle class bubble.

serendipitea · 11/11/2024 08:15

duc748 · 10/11/2024 20:05

Maybe voters looked at California (Democrat flagship State? 😛), and didn't like what they saw?

Indeed the one friend I know who voted for Trump lives part-time in CA and attributed her vote to the worsening law and order situation there as a direct consequence of Harris's stint as AG.

She is not a bigot.

YourAmplePlumPoster · 11/11/2024 12:17

If you want the most comprehensive analysis check this out by Victor Davis Hanson. It's an hour long but worth it.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/nhrDvXILhkQ?si=7HcIePdh8a1mKD6j

YourAmplePlumPoster · 11/11/2024 12:41

John Harris says people don't know how to "navigate" woke language. No, John, they simply despise it, especially those blue collar workers who have left the Democrats.

RedToothBrush · 11/11/2024 16:16

YourAmplePlumPoster · 11/11/2024 12:41

John Harris says people don't know how to "navigate" woke language. No, John, they simply despise it, especially those blue collar workers who have left the Democrats.

They don't know how to 'navigate' meaningless drivel based on what people from above think they should say rather than what they actually see and experience.

Then there's the punishments for 'incorrect' use of everyday words in normal usage such as 'woman'.

It's bullshit.

It's all about power and control and there's a whole bunch of people who just aren't going to roll over and do what they are told because otherwise they will be punished when they've done nothing wrong.

It's this whole narrative of good people v bad people and trying to cast people into these roles which is bullshit.

You can't condemn a good person for being bad because they used the word man when seeing a man. What he's wearing is irrelevant.

YourAmplePlumPoster · 11/11/2024 17:16

Well said.

TempestTost · 11/11/2024 20:45

People who know they are not bigots can't usually be convinced that they are, they know what they think and feel.

And they know when they use a word that was fine two years ago, but now it's offensive, that it's bullshit.

They know when people are insisting they say Latinix, and they have never met anyone from that community who says that, it is bs.

They know when they hear from different members of a group that they should use different words, or they are racists, it's bs.

etc.

And once this stuff is happening, the people pushing it lose credibility. It no longer appears even to be genuine, it seems like there are ulterior motives.

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