Man Argues That Women Have No Right to Privacy in Changing Rooms

[UtopiaPlanitia]

A few months ago a teacher filmed a great conversation with his student, debating whether or not JK Rowling is transphobic, and it was very enlightening. He has a new video up where he discusses women's rights with a man who is a Democrat voter.

I swear to god that 'Democrat' man goes all around the houses and overcomplicates the issues to get out of saying that males shouldn't be allowed to use women's spaces or to compete in women's sports.

It's almost like this man doesn't see women as beings worthy of respect.

This was really interesting to hear and there were some great challenges by Warren Smith. (Though he frustratingly missed a few issues for women by being a bloke.)
It reminded me of arguments with an abusive ex who would say anything to deflect, avoid, muddy the waters, cast aspersions and outright lie to win.

It was good, very frustrating. I would have asked wokey blokey towards the end “so there can never be a space women can use that is exclusively for females and no males? And women have to live like that? Forever? With no exclusive space? That’s what you’re laying out for society from now on?”

What an infuriating arse that bloke is. I couldn't listen to much, it made me too angry.

You all make excellent points!

For me, listening to this man discussing a situation where a 6 year old and a woman are distressed by a male wanting to change in the female changing room, it was very obvious that for this man all the empathy, personhood, and sympathy was for the male in the situation. The idea of wanting to protect the child and the woman didn’t enter his argument at all, nor did the idea of them having rights to dignity and privacy.

Well we don't have rights, do we?

NPET, thanks for the reminder - important information just won't stay in my silly womanly head 🤷‍♀️

Hw does that ridicule man not have the ability to extrapolate to all the scenarios where women can't choose to self exclude?

Ok, yeah we could all just never use a gym, swimming pool, spa etc again, maybe wear nappies when out in public to avoid restrooms. It would be very unfair, would cause women to lose socialisation and exercise opportunities, could impact on mental and physical health conditions, but it would be doable.

But what about women committed to psychiatric facilities or prisons, or admitted to hospital. They can't just say 'oh dear, that woman over there has her cock in her hand and I don't really feel comfortable having her watch me get naked, so I'll just toddle off somewhere else where my uninclusive feelings won't get in the way of them living their best life'.

He must, must, must be able to comprehend that there is a conflict in rights. If men are given the right to identify as women and access women's facilities, then that removes the right for women to have women only facilities.

I think InfoSec that he is perfectly able to comprehend that there's a conflict of rights in this situation but it makes him feel bad so he doesn't want to.

And all the points you made were perfectly valid so, in response to you, he would probably start waffling even more about whether or not there is a legal right to privacy for every person on the planet in all situations.

The talking points have long since moved from "There's no conflict between women's rights and trans rights!" to that trans male's rights are paramount. He can't concede that there might be times and places women and girls should get privacy from men, because that denies the premise of self-ID and—and IME this is what this is really all about—acknowledges that women as a class need ways to protect themselves from men as a class.

That's a fair point @annejumps

I also found it amazing that he kept going on about the 'intention' of the man exposing himself around women and children - as though a man having no evil intent behind getting naked around women and children would make the act perfectly fine.

And also he was veering towards arguing that 'no man who thinks he's a woman would ever be doing something wrong by being naked in female changing spaces because his penis is a woman's penis'.

At times I was thinking "Can he actually hear the things that are coming out of his own mouth?!"

I watched that yesterday, so frustrating.
I've had that conversation a million times online, and it always comes down to, "well some women have a penis", or they start with the insults and/or block you.

I haven't had time to listen all the way through but it seems clear that the man being questioned by the teacher is:

• totally unable to understand that women might have rights - his brain just freezes - he just cant grasp that as being a fact
• has just accepted the dogma that you can change sex and that in doing that you gain rights over others
• an absolute example of people who just go along with what they think is the popular / most applauded view - like the pupil who thought JKR was evil

Unfortunately those who you would like to think would be challenged to see this dismal display of male stupidity will not doubt come up with some arguement about how the teacher has manipulated him.

Talk about the emporer's new clothes. Although that story has the fairy tale ending that once someone points out the mass delusion everyone goes, of course how silly of us. Whereas we know in real life the more you point out the flaws in the trans arguement the more you make yourself the most evil, unkind, right wing reactionary picking on the most discriminated group in the world.

The very fact that these videos haven't really impinged on the public consciousness illustrates that most are as a point of principle unable to admit that they could ever have been wrong, could ever have been coopted into believing something impossible.

And, as I ofthen say, this isn't always about genuine sympathy or empathy for trans people. This is about have the believe that women have no value, they have no rights, they lack logic, and should be ignored or if they persist, ridiculed.

So depressing.

I’m not even going to listen to it because it’s irrelevant. He’s a man. He doesn’t get to define women’s boundaries. That’s it.

There’s a lot of this going on in the world right now. In America that’s how they crushed women’s healthcare. By turning it into a philosophical argument. It’s not a philosophical argument. These are real women with bodily and moral autonomy. They are the only ones who decide.

I wonder what he'd say if the man in question was displaying a hard-on.

That is exactly what some of them are very happy to say out loud.

Which is ironic. They are fine to segregate based on subjective, nebulous 'gender identity' but segregating based on objective, biological difference is the worst possible thing in the world to them.

The problem is, Republicans seem to be threatening the existence of democracy and women’s right to healthcare. Democrats are threatening women’s right to self define as not the same as men. It’s so contradictory.

I think it may need democrats in for the moment, then work on gender stuff as we will still have democracy to do it.

I mean, it’s madness.

I think it might also be a case of "I took up this position without really thinking it through and now I'm going to defend it come what may because pride won't allow me to concede".

No problem, it’s a woman’s hard-on. These people have blocked their own brains.

That man has self-identified as a Good Person on The Right Side of History, who holds the Inseparable Bundle of Righteous Beliefs. He knows that any attempt to examine let alone individually discard parts of the Righteous Bundle will cast him out of his Tribe of Good People. Every bit of his mental energy must now be devoted to upholding his self-identity.

Having skirmished online with a few men who were self-styled Good People, it seems to me that quite a lot of them adopt it as a shield to hide that fact that they’re actually pretty nasty.

It is very frightening to realise women only have the rights men allow them to. Around the world what men allow differs.

It's the reversal of the child /parent dynamic.

Trans people deserve the protection that you would expect an adult give to a child- he percieves them as vulnerable, non-sexual and need of protection.

Any other view is unacceptable and the overwhelming evidence of the issues and difficulties that this causes is just waived away.

100% agree. Some of these people are deeply nasty misogynists, who genuinely don't see women as human. More disturbingly though, some of these people are women.

Another one whose hard drive needs checking.

Had the Democrat wokey person been asked that he would have answered 'yes' because his whole argument was based around the idea that if you don't like what you find in the locker room, for example male-bodied person, then you don't have to use that facility. He totally blindsided the point that if you do this then women can mostly not be in the public sphere. His argument was STFU and stay home, in essence. Good video. Made explicity what most followers of this ideology want to obscure.