Kemi elected leader of the Tory party

[cariadlet]

Let's hope she really holds Labour to account about women's rights and the dangers of gender ideology.

Being gay is predicated on the reality of sex. It is about being same sex attracted. Gay men are still men, even if they are camp and effeminate or eveen if they like shopping for interiors and soft furnishings. Lesbians are still women even if they have short hair and like to take engines apart or play football.

Not conforming to gender concepts and expectations is exactly what the liberation movements were about. Gender ideology seeks to push people back into gender boxes - whilst simultaneously denying the reality. or importance of biological sex.

There have always been some people, mainly men, who have cross dressed since childhood and for whom presenting as the opposite sex has an erotic component. Cross dressing helps them to express their softer self more easily in a world which demands toughness from males. This sex drive, though, is still very masculine in nature. You don't find women who get off in such a way by wearing men's clothing.

Most young transmen are lesbians, or else they are autistic and naturally gender non conforming - but surrounded by gender ideology and culture which suggests to them that they are really the opposite sex, or no sex at all.

Really can't see that happening, he strikes me as being level headed and sensible who can't be arsed with populist nonsense and name calling.

On the surface, yes, but he's quite slow witted in my view....Kemi will not permit him to fudge and fence sit as is his natural inclination. At PMQs I can easily see him reaching for insults when under pressure. We'll soon see.

I’m only glad because of her stance on women’s sex-based rights. Her recent remarks on maternity leave and children with disabilities are abhorrent.
On the point about her being female and non-white, yes, great as far as it goes, but I do think it gives her licence to say things about POC that a white person couldn’t. I would go so far as to suggest that this is one of the reasons at least some in the Tory parliamentary party support her.

Except she ddn't say what you imply - though that she did has now become a truth of common lore that is now endlessly repeated as fact. Like chinese whispers...what is said and what ends up being repeated are two quite different things.

@FreedomDogs

Who said it - 1970s/1980s homophobes, or 2010s/2020s genderists?

I'm just a lesbian trapped in a man's body.
Girls fancying girls is unnatural - you should be a boy.
How do you know you don't like (girl)dick unless you've tried it?

Do you accept that there is such a concept as "gender identity"? Do you accept that we are being expected to go along with the validity of this concept, and that it is generally seen as "transphobic" to argue for any other understanding of gender and sex? Have you tried to understand the definitions of "gender", "sex", "gender identity", "woman", "transgender" etc that Stonewall have been pushing for the past 9 years? Do you think that their definitions are coherent and correct, and should be the basis of our understanding of the Equality Act 2010?

Because if you answer "yes" to these questions, you are a living example of a gender identity ideologue. I happen to see these matters differently, and I am done with being told that I have to think and act as if gender identity is a useful replacement for sex in law and in society.

What am I 'implying'?
She (well, her leaflet, for which she wrote the foreword and the rest of which one has to assume she at least signed off on) said a diagnosis of autism 'offers economic advantages and protections'.
On maternity pay, as far as I can tell she rapidly rowed back on her comments when it became clear how badly they were going down. She resigned rather than take maternity pay; many women don't have that option.

What makes an ideology an ideology is that it claims to explain everything about its field. It rejects any criticism as wrong in principle - a kind of false consciousness resulting from deficient understanding. If only you believe, then you can see that it is right. It follows that any incoherences, or annoying things like contradictory facts, can safely be ignored, as criticism simply demonstrates a failure to understand. Marxism is an ideology, as is critical theory (any flavour), most theology and, of course, gender identity theory. This makes it different from scientific theories or doctrines, which must in principle be testable and demonstrable. The idea of gender identity is not in any way testable, or demonstrable. It can only be believed in.

"Olukemi Olufunto Adegoke Badenoch I think will attract the ire of some commentators who feel she has sold out her African heritage to some exxtent. I think she is distinctly middle class and has a very wealthy husband (a mixed race marriage incidentally)."

I don't understand this comment on many levels. Does the whole continent of Africa share a similar culture and every person think in the same way?

For the record, some of the most socially conservative people I know are from a middle class Nigerian background 🤷🏼‍♀️

My DD’s Nigerian heritage and mixed Nigerian/English heritage friends deffo have the strictest/most educationally minded parents in the friend group! We’ve been trying (and failing!) to bust one out of her mum’s house for the whole half term. Obvs a small sample size tho.

But yes, I agree that Kemi’s conservatism (both big and small c versions) doesn’t seem particularly unusual for a British born person with Nigerian parents (who was educated in Nigeria, the US and the U.K.)

Bit weird of the person you quoted to lump all African nations together like that tho, seems a bit prejudiced perhaps they should consider reading John McWhorter’s Woke Racism book?

Re: Gender Identity Ideology being an ideology and not a bad faith misrepresentation of trans existence - I know this to be true because I listen to trans people who agree with Gender Identity Ideology AND trans people who don’t agree with Gender Identity Ideology (eg TheMaryChu on YouTube who self describes as a ‘male with Gender Dysphoria’ and asserts to having no inner Gender Identity whatsoever).

Transitioned people are not monolith, they don’t all believe the same stuff.
And for the record Mary is ‘post op’ via the NHS GIC pathway, so just about as officially trans as it’s possible to be (although Mary is currently questioning whether trans is ever something innate or always a psychological reaction to something, with that ‘something’ being several things depending on the person, including trauma).

Mary recently watched a Magdalen Berns reaction video on stream and agreed with most of Magdalen’s comments and disagreed with most of Stef Sanjati’s (another transitioned male) responses:

So maybe FreedomDogs just needs to listen 👏 to 👏 more 👏 trans 👏 people?

edit: vowel movement.

I'm sorry but she is absolutely dreadful, and apart from the gender bollocks stuff and free speech, she will be dreadful in pretty much every other way. Being able to realise that men are not women does not make one a feminist. She is not a friend of women any more than Matt Walsh is.

My heart sank when I realised she had been elected leader of the conservatives. A sensible, pragmatic conservative would have been the strongest opposition. Not an ideological, extreme right and divisive figure like KB. It will be really easy for KS to dismiss what she says.

I think she's as bad as Johnson in her inability to reflect and realise that people might find some of her comments repellent. She proved her inability to consider the wider response to her this morning.

We'll see!

She is a conviction politician. She doesn't alter her message according to what she thinks her audience want to hear. For many, it will be good to get some clear day light from the middle of the road, stuck in the mud fudge emanating from the current front bench.

My heart sank when I realised she had been elected leader of the conservatives. A sensible, pragmatic conservative would have been the strongest opposition.

Did you want the conservatives to win the next GE?

You've highlighted what I want in the second sentence of mine that you yourself put in bold.

😐

Coming back to this thread I have a strange sense of déjà vu of some of the usual suspects (even though names are different) trying to hijack a thread to promote their one dimensional politics.

ie Labour right or wrong should always be supported.

Interesting to note that a TU is goind to launch a legal challenge to the Labour decision to cut winter fuel allowance.

I think the real problem for the Tories is that Labour is now so right wing it is almost like they have no choice but to be even more right wing.

So what would be radical is that if the Tory party heads for the middle ground and out flanks Labour in terms of "ordinary" working people, and in doing so also makes all the right wing extremists in the Tory party think they will have to leave and join reform.

Although we will still have the problem that there is no even vaguely leftish representation in UK politics.

Yes I know you said strongest opposition but did you want them to remain in opposition at the next GE? Or did you want someone other than Kemi to lead them to win?

Article in today's Observer
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/02/the-global-fertility-crisis-are-fewer-babies-a-good-or-a-bad-thing-experts-are-divided

Rather odd to choose 20-64 to represent "working age". Those in the UK dependent on a state pension will soon need to work to their late 60s. By 2075 that may well have changed further, to early 70s or even older.

There is no point articulating policies now as so much will change jn 4/5 years so lots of space to attack labour, hope she will crush them on gender.

I think you are just looking for something to criticise.

You are aware that different countries have different retirement ages. Presumably that's an average of retirement ages.

This is an article about the problem in western countries as a whole. (what is going on in Portugal?)

Did you read the article itself and if so what did you think is the biggest issue?

Does anyone remember, some years ago now, there was serious discussion about shipping pensioners off to other countries.

All nicely package about better climate, etc., etc.. But not quite the Marigold Hotel.

ie that if the UK spend the same amount on care for the elderly in countries where the pound sterling would cover a higher level of care, both in terms of people and housing, it would make sense.

And not only that, it would stop people who feel they have to travel to western european countries to get a job from leaving their home and families, as well as bringing income into the country.

I dont think it ever came to anything, but now it sounds a bit like the Rwanda plan.