Mumsnet zoomchat with Kemi Badenoch

[HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_live_events/5195642-zoomchat-with-kemi-badenoch-mp-monday-28th-october-10am

Because these often get missed. Some great questions already.

I managed to miss that entirely - thanks for posting a link here 👍

Excerpts of relevance to FWR:

On whether there's a left bias among civil servants:

'you can't just put all civil servants in in a bucket I couldn't have got my job done uh without civil servants what was actually really inspiring was that there were many gender critical civil servants when I was fighting the battles on the
gender recognition act and self ID who said thank you we need your help we have these other colleagues who are creating problems we can't speak out you know some of you might have heard about the scene Network so there are great people who are working there but we need the ministers themselves to be tougher '

On 'gender critical' feminism:

Justine Mumsnet 'you mentioned the sex and gender debate and you've obviously been quite central to some of the some of the policy around that @Bonfirelady asks how would you balance some people's belief that everyone has a gender identity with those of us that don't hold this belief for example should biological malesgender identity allow them to take part in women's sport if they believe themselves to be female and would holding a gender recognition certificate make a difference here.

Kemi Badenoch: 'So, um, I think most people probably know my views but just to be very explicit I believe that biological sex is real and that should be the basis for policymaking. Now we know that there are many people who would like to be treated as a different sex from what they from from what they are, and we should do what we can to accommodate them without reducing the rights of those who are vulnerable, in particular women and children. This is where this is the fundamental basis of my belief.

I've met many trans people who agree with me but I also think that we need more clarity in the law when the gender recognition Act was written uh 20 years ago you know it talked about transsexuals and everybody sort of knew what they meant by that it was usually uh mostly men who wanted to have surgery to have uh bodies that were female it was very very rare this is quite different from what we refer to as gender identity now, where people say there're 24 different uh genders and it's about how you feel and I don't think we should allow uh people to just be able to speak themselves into uh legal categories.

I cannot speak myself into a particular age group uh you know I cannot speak myself into uh a particular sort of income group we have to make sure that we don't lose touch with reality and I know that that is very difficult for some people but government's job isn't to try and please every single uh group government's job is to make sure that things are right and fair and uh ensure that the system
is policed that's what I want us to do.

Justine Mumsnet: 'Okay so what actual practical measures would you take to clear up this sort of confusion that you've talked about here?

Kemi Badenoch: 'so so one of the things which I was working on uh until the unexpected snap election was uh rewriting the equalities act the equality act so that it was very clear that sex uh as it referred to was biological um sex I do think people need to understand what a gender recognition certificate is for now so previously uh the reason why you needed a gender recognition certificate the Genesis of this as I looked into the history was that we didn't have same-sex marriage and so it was a way for people who could get married uh to be able to do so now that we have uh same-sex marriage that particular reason for the gender recognition certificate has fallen away we have become a bit more well sry a lot more open and uh have thought more creatively about how we can make sure that we allow people to to get married - you know marriage is a fantastic institution I would say conservative institution, but but I biased, and stop keeping them out of things like that that are really to do with the freedom of contract between two two individuals.

So looking at what the purpose of a gender recognition certificate means in 2024 I think is important I also think that we should look at how a law that was made for adults is now uh being used uh for children so I fundamentally disagree with the concept of a child being trans when the law talks about doing these things post 18 so I use the ... I use the phrase gender questioning children I know that they are um there are many children who do question their gender who do wonder what their uh identity is many of them are children who are gay we've seen a huge overlap between uh gay children with autism who also think that they are transgender how do we make sure that it is those who have gender dysphoria who are the ones who enter this category and uh long-term gender dysphoria not the one that falls away so making sure that children don't end up on a Pathway to irreversible decisions uh is absolutely critical the C's report has been very helpful I think more needs to be done but let's talk about this in a way where women aren't attacked constantly as being anti-trans or terfs or whatever - I think Terf has actually turned into a badge of honour now - um we need to be able to have a conversation without people uh being attacked for, or hatred, that's not what's going on we all want to be able to live uh together in peace and there's a way through it might be tough not everyone will get what they want but making sure that there is the space to have the conversation and to make policy without threats is one of my key priorities'.

Transcript from youtube, checked briefly but there may still be a few errors.

On MVAWG:

MN question: 'how do you think we can address the appalling levels of male violence against women we see men committing the most awful crimes such as images of child abuse and yet receiving non-custodial sentences while a woman who made a vile comment on social media received a prison sentence of 31 months yes her comment was horrible but did it warrant a FastTrack prison term as a woman I have lost my faith in the justice system'

Kemi Badenoch: 'I'm very sorry, uh, to hear that you've lost your faith in the justice system. This is something uh that is very close to my heart, um, I remember being asked whether or not I was feminist and I always say yes because I believe in equal rights for men and women.

I don't have the academic feminism that a lot of people have, uh, where there there's theories and so on which are not my space my feminism comes from a realization that we as women are vulnerable our bodies are weaker, that our biology creates, um, a lot of difficulties for us which men will never, never understand, you know even you know with the best will will in the world. And so there's a spectrum you know at the easy end, with people just understanding what we go through pregnancy periods menopause and so on they just don't get it but the extreme end is the one that you're talking about and it is something that honestly gives me nightmares.

You know I worry about my children walking to school my daughters, what sort of situations they can get into and I think it is extraordinary how some people get away with extreme levels of violence and it looks like a slap on the wrist. I hate it when I see you know and read stories of women who are trapped in these unbelievably bad relationships and they can't get out more uh uh tougher
sentencing is important that means building more prisons but also just looking at sentencing as a whole.

I do think it's extraordinary that sometimes people get tough sentences for things that we think are minor misdemeanors and then those who do awful things are released early - some of the prisoners who've uh come out of this uh early prison release should be in prison still - child abuse Etc.

I think those who share images uh are treated as if it's just an online crime, it is just as violating as if it had happened physically because it never goes away the image is shared and and enjoyed by all sorts of uh of perverts and uh all across the world we've got to tackle what is going on online we've got to tackle the endless proliferation of porn that glorifies the abuse of women.

So I have a problem with um you know the way that porn is so accessible even to very young boys and it makes them think that this is something that is normal that this is what women enjoy there is a whole [?} of policy that we need to look at in this area that I'm very concerned about and um and and I will definitely definitely do work on if I'm leader of the opposition but sentencing is key as well.

Justine Mumsnet: 'And do you think the justice system is inherently misogynistic?

Kemi: 'I don't think it is inherently misogynistic. I'm going back now to my um to my law degree and I you know feminist critiques of land law and so on I think we've moved away from those periods where the justice system definitely was misogynistic and women can do a lot of things but I think what we're going to need to do now requires a wholesale change of the system what used to work uh 20 40 50 years ago doesn't work now um you know that case of um you know Giselle Pelicot in France like it's just so horrific the the justice system was not built to deal with that kind of thing what that woman is doing is amazing we need to look at what the system can do for the future not try and keep using old ways of doing things for for 2024 and that's why I've been saying let's not rush out with policies and say we're going to do this we're going to do that what can the future look like how can we we redesign the system to be fit for the future not just for what was happening yesterday.'

Favourite biscuit: Biscoff.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/badenoch-beats-jenrick-in-mumsnet-ratings/

By the by.

@HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott thanks a million for pating the transcripts of the FWR-relevant issues.

Kemi sounds like she definitely understands where GC feminists are coming from on those issues. She also, unlike an awful lot of politicians, seems to have done some homework on the problems caused by GRA 2004 and EA 2010 - it’s refreshing to have someone who understands what they’re talking about rather than giving us soundbites and platitudes to calm the weemin.

Thanks very much for that transcript , @HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott .

Kemi Badenoch gets this issue like no other senior politician. I appreciate the candour and straightforward answers, too. I related very strongly to her description of the kind of feminist she is.

Great question, BonfireLady! I hope you were happy with the answer - I know I was.

Thank you for the brilliant transcript Arabella! A most royal effort.

Excellent work, thank you.

You are welcome, loyal subjects. Sorry the punctuation got a bit sloppy in places. One is busy.

I’m watching the video now and I agree with you that the candour is refreshing even for issues where I might disagree with her. I wish more politicians gave us their actual reasoning or thinking rather than repeating soundbites and vagueness.

Edit: I forgot to say I found the idea of Kemi being an Mumsnetter (back in the day) fascinating; I’m having fun trying to imagine what her contributions to discussions would have been like.

She can be clear on the gender issue because change there doesn't really involve money.

On any other issue I don't see anything different to normal Tory waffling about cutting the State, which is how we've ended up where we are.

There's probably something in what you say, but most other politicians aren't clear about sex and gender issues even though no or little money may be involved.

Even if I disagree with her about the responsibilities of the State towards citizens, I can still enjoy her candour in explaining her reasoning and her intended approach - I felt like she was treating us as grownups which most politicians do not do these days. I’m fed up of being talked down to, particularly by male politicians when it comes to issues that disproportionately affect women.

I wish more politicians behaved in a straightforward way so we could get a more realistic idea of where they’re coming from ideologically and have a better idea of how they might govern in office. That would allow us to make better choices when it comes to voting.

Just remembered - in the transcript, there is what appears to be a pointed comment implying that Sunak's decision to call a snap election caught her on the hop and scuppered her plans to clarify that Sex in the EA2010 meant bio sex?
Anyone else agree?

That was my interpretation of things too Snowy

She seemed justifiably frustrated by it, as was I, because (as she described in interviews a number of months ago) she had been steering this change through Cabinet, and had been consulting with the EHRC, and was ready to make the change but for Sunak and his preference to use it as a promise in electioneering.

Like she says, men will never really understand. A substantive issue for her, an electoral carrot for him.

I certainly was.

Thanks for the transcript @HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott
I really wanted to listen but I was working today.

I'm not sure you'll see this but I'm going to say it anyway: thank you Kemi. I hope this gets picked up and reported as you said it. It would be great to see you lead the opposition with this approach in mind. Your clarity of thought and articulation on a sensible way forward - for both gender questioning children and on fixing the consequences of gender identity belief being imposed as fact in society - is very much appreciated.

Thank you, ma'am.

This article might be of interest to the thread:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14008407/SNP-failed-women-Kemi-Badenochs-warning-dangerous-gender-self-ID-agenda-peddled-ministers.html

Thanks your Royal Maj.
Great questions and replies.
Kemi didn't disappoint and I really hope she'll win.

Thanks mumsnet, that was really interesting.

Kemi Badenoch: Children can’t be transgender
Telegraph write up of web chat
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/28/kemi-badenoch-children-cannot-be-transgender/

Have to admit I felt that MNHQ's questions were given priority over user questions, maybe we should have been warned that we were only getting maybe less than 50%.

Was sad that the question I wasnt asked about the conflict between GI and GC feminism wasn't asked as I specifically put it within the context of how she could follow up on work already done, and the outstanding issues raised by the Westminster Hall debate, as we already know what here opinions are on the issue. ie she wasn't put on the spot.

But agree she is an impressive speaker, who seems to have a grasp of a very wide range of issues.

She appears to be saying she puts practicality before political grand standing, and can see this lets get things done isn't always what voters want.

And can see why she might get and appear to get exasperated with people.

(repeat of post on other thread)