Trans and non-binary categories added to official forms for reporting the death of a child

[IwantToRetire]

NB not checked story, only source DM

The Department of Health and Social Care has this month updated the forms that must be submitted following the tragic loss of a young person.

The paperwork asks: 'Which gender did the child identify as at the time of death?'

It includes the categories 'male (including trans male)', 'female (including trans female)' and 'non-binary'.

As recently as July the form simply listed 'male', 'female', 'other' and 'unknown' under the 'sex' category.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13964311/trans-non-binary-official-forms-death-child.html

Perhaps a bereaved parent might wish to respect the wishes / pronouns of their dead child?

Perhaps this data will be collected and serve some purpose. Perhaps the DM are stirring up drama!!

Does the form also still include a question asking the sex?

It's not a problem if the form asks the sex of the child as well as do they have a trans ideology belief identity.

And a 'none' option for GI.

More generally, though, shouldn't the criterion be, how many bereaved parents would find this helpful, versus how many parents would find this insensitive/insulting/annoying?

Wouldn't this be useful to identify if there really are higher death/suicide rates amount trans communities? As long as sex data is still collected or shouldn't be an issue?

So the fantasy persists beyond the grave. Wtaf?? Completely irrelevant data capture. DoHSC seem to be captured loons.

It would be useful if they segregated out bio sex trans categories. But unless the sex data is robust it will just cause chaos.

I can tell you now NHS recording of sex is not great for this category. I often see children who have all the markers on their record changed along with their pronouns and our data set records sex at birth, legal sex and gender identity.

This is despite the fact that these are are people too young to formally have a GRC. I think it's that those who fill in the gender box either don't understand all the information categories or are so captured they don't think about the issues that a blanket change causes.

I have on occasion had to trawl massively through a set of notes to confirm that I wasn't going crazy and the teenage "boy" I was being asked to look after had actually been born a girl. It was important as I needed to know if they needed a pre-op pregnancy test.

More generally, though, shouldn't the criterion be, how many bereaved parents would find this helpful, versus how many parents would find this insensitive/insulting/annoying?

Ideally yes - but as we know from the many threads started on FWR, there are many instances when the issue of a child claiming a trans identity has lead to division, distress, and even family break up.

As I said in OP, I've not fact checked, but why would this information be necessary for the process of reporting a death?

It is isn't for instance a memorial to someone, to explore their life, beliefs etc.. Its facts.

ie should match their birth certificate. (or does this too now have an identity category)

You dont add your religious beliefs, why is it thought this set of beliefs should be included when other similar adherences aren't.

In fact, even though I have no religious faith, surely this should be recorded so that appropriate practices can be followed.

Its just absurd, and I cant understand why authorities are allowing this is fact tiny belief sect to be given greater importance than any other.

Disproportionate, and must also make the vast majority who may find themselves sadly having to use this form, be burdened with this nonsense intruding on their loss.

As usual, this one group of very special people is allowed to trample over everybody else's sensibilities.

I have on occasion had to trawl massively through a set of notes to confirm that I wasn't going crazy and the teenage "boy" I was being asked to look after had actually been born a girl. It was important as I needed to know if they needed a pre-op pregnancy test.

Given how harshly the NHS is criticised for its admin, top heavy managerial scheme, this so basic and necessary information not being available immediately should be as good as an arguement as any that this is not only time wasting but impacting on provision of health services.

Are all the people who go along with this parents, who the moment one of their young ones stamp their spoilt little feets, immediately say yes of course, whatever you want.

Well, when we start saying its quasi-religious, it actually DOES make sense.

Unless you’ve had to fill out the form for your dead child, you really don’t get to take a position on how this sits with bereaved parents.

Speculating how they would be “burdened by this intrusive nonsense” is beyond ignorant of the reality when you pr child dies.

Using dead children for point scoring about pronouns is a very deep low to sink to.

I’m glad for anyone who has no fucking clue what it’s like to actually have to register the death of your child.

But I’m not staying quiet while bereaved parents get used as a handy prop to bolster protests about pronouns and gender identity.

Not OK - there’s a whole board here for bereaved parents. Have some fucking sensitivity about this coming up in their recommended threads.

Those forms are not NHS by the way - they’re a different government department And the whole point of the gender identify data point is to make analysis more robust and get actual statistics - it’s not replacing biological sex.

No surprise this is being by the Mail to get clicks, but honestly disgusted to see some of the comments on this thread with voyeuristic speculative shit about a situation I very much hope you never have to live through.

But I’m not staying quiet while bereaved parents get used as a handy prop to bolster protests about pronouns and gender identity.

But not apparently as considerate of those who find this unecessary and irrelevant addition to a form needed to record facts, as upsetting ot worse.

Or are you saying only those who think like you need to be taken into account?

And the whole point of the gender identify data point is to make analysis more robust and get actual statistics

Based on what?

Which warring parent got to fill out the form?

Robust????????????????

Don’t. Just… don’t.

You don’t get to lecture me on consideration for the experience of bereaved parents, put false words in my mouth or tell me off for posting as an actual bereaved parent who has filled out that form.

Unbelievable, that that’s your response.

I am GC as you can get and am also the very close friend of a parent whose trans child died.

It was awful for everyone, the death of a child no matter what they identify as, is traumatic. The funeral was held using their "new" name, and I bit my tongue when they asked for donations to Mermaids.

However if it gave them solace to mark their child's gender identity in a form that no one will ever see, I cannot see a problem with it. I don't agree with it, but I see how it can give them comfort.

This is a nine-page form, available on the government website. Lots of questions and information asked for. It must be devastating to have to fill this out.

It is used for registering the deaths of children, including newborns.

The question "Which gender did the child identify as at the time of death? (if 10 years or older)" is the fourth question, even above the child's age. That appears to give it a level of importance.

The form gives five options:
Males (including trans male)
Female (including trans female)
Non-binary
Other
Not known

The wording of the first two options - including both a sex and then trans that sex in the same category - would be confusing for some people. The form needs to be very clear, especially as it is aimed at people who are in a time of crisis.

But what is worse is that there is no option for the parent to say that their child had no gender identity. Many people don't, and that will include children. These parents will be left with "Not known" (can't fill that in, it looks like I didn't know my own child) or Other (so that's some other gender identity which isn't listed here, but my child didn't have one. What do I put?). This question is badly thought out, unbalanced - biased, even - and unkind in possibly putting more stress on the parents at this awful time.

The approach of this form as it stands is rather like asking for the child's religious conviction but not allowing for the answer that they had none. There needs to be other options, eg:
Not applicable
and
None

As we all mainly say, so long as actual sex data is recorded, their belief in their own gender identity should also be recorded- in fact that is useful information.
Information around their religious beliefs is useful too.

Oh, really.
Well that's ridiculous then.

Mmmnotsure

as you say, a devastating thing to be doing

but i agree with all your points

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/child-death-reviews-forms-for-reporting-child-deaths

Form is here.

My sincere condolences to any parent who has ever had to fill one out.

I have read through the form - thank you for the link @ArabellaScott. I can't find any questions about the religion of the child or the child's family. (There are options given for other details about the child, such as education and the child's ethnic group.)

The only belief system they seem interested in is gender identity.

Its a dreadfully worded question. Havent they learnt anything from the census debacle? The use of 'trans male' and trans female' is confusing, also.

Theres so many more sensitive ways to ask about the childs identity, but this seems like they used it an an opportunity to normalise gender identity, forcing all parents to state their childs gender and seeing it differently to their sex.

Well they are trying to distort the birth records with all their stupid 'assigning', they've fucked up the census and the crime stats, now the death records - it's almost like society is being dismantled bit-by-bit. As an amateur genealogist I'm not happy.

As much as I think gender identity is dangerous bollocks, I can't find it in myself to have an issue with this. Parents who have just lost their child are going to want to respect their child's wishes at such a time. There's no reason why it should distort any stats as long as it asks for their actual sex too.

They should put sex and they should put gender.

And then they can put religion.

And then it's all fair and all respectful whilst reflecting reality.

Otherwise that risks upsetting grieving parents who find this nonsense upsetting.

Good point. I wasn't thinking of it from the perspective of parents who are GC.