I know this has been discussed before - gender at work.

[BrightGreenLeaves]

I’m just so fed up with it. It’s all about gender all the time. Despite the fact that we run separate male and female services.

Sex has completely been eradicated although I do occasionally push back and quote the equality act and protected characteristics. It makes me feel very nervous.

I know that being they/them or she/they is fundamental to some people’s sense of self. But I’m so fed up of that seemingly being the only diversity that matters. And the assumption that everyone believes in this.

Im fed up of everything being about what you identify as. For example self-identified men or women, or identifying as having a disability.

Im fed up of worrying about accidentally calling a woman she and not they.

Im fed up of wondering how I can feel like I’m on a completely different planet to all the nice people in my work who believe in gender absolutely. They are trying SO hard to be inclusive, which I really do understand. They all want to be so nice and welcoming to everyone, I get it.

Im fed up of wondering who agrees with me by seeing who puts their pronouns on their emails.

Im fed up of wondering what is going to be the moment where I finally have to speak up and completely alienate myself with all the nice people at work. I know I will have to at some point, maybe during an International Women’s Day event where they propose to have someone who identifies as a woman speaking. Particularly insensitive because where I work someone’s sex is so so important to their experience. Period poverty anyone?

Argh! Also fed up of auto correct not autocorrecting the word I’m above. I couldn’t be bothered to change it.

And thanks everyone for listening to my ramblings, it does help.

I absolutely get you! See my post from a while back about a non-binary individual joining my team. They are a nice person! But I feel ridiculous when I refer to them as 'they' (when they are a full grown male) but can't risk being disciplined.

Yeah same.

I'm the exact same OP, the exact same. I can't go into too much detail incase I reveal too much about where I work but I'm in Scotland; it's a govt funded organisation. They've recently changed their presentation about the Equality act (called it equalities and inclusion act, which is wrong wrong wrong) and as part of the research that gets done in-house, the team have questions we all have to use as templates for our work. The gender question is;- what is your gender identity? Male, Female, Prefer not to say, I identify as another gender (please specify if you wish), I identify as transgender or have a transgender history.

Confusing as hell since male and female are sex characteristics, not gender. And there's no option to say "I don't have a gender identity". I'm too feart to email and suggest they update it. Also in the "equalities" presentation they called the protected characteristic gender and put sex in small letters in brackets (!!!!) at the bottom of that slide. FFS.

Not quite as bad though as disclosure Scotland; I had to fill out the form and halfway through it asked a similar gender identity question but also had a link about transgender saying you can put down whatever you feel like in the box, that's no problem. This is for the form to check for safety to work with young and vulnerable children!!!! Complete disregard for safeguarding. So anyone can put whatever they like, making it that much more difficult to cross check against prison records etc.

I did email them feedback about it, but used my personal non-identifiable email address as I was worried using my work email address with my name would be flagged. Fucking ridiculous.

Oh and yes, in my team they all have pronouns apart from me. And one other guy, who is never in the office. I've said before but they all work out of Edinburgh too, do a lot of partner work with the uni and it's generally a very clique, tight circle of people in the industry sector. I sometimes feel like I'm living in a Punkd video. Someone's going to jump out and say gotcha!!!!

Oh my goodness that sounds awful! My place has replace ses with gender completely now. Sex no longer exists, even when listing protected characteristics.

One time I asked for gender to be replaced with sex on a doc but I haven’t dared do it again.

Thank you.
I think it's like 50/50 among women my age. My immediate "galpals" agree with me over men moving in on our "gains", but there are a lot of girls/women who like to be "woke" and outwardly supportive of TWAW.
I don't think we [girls, sorry women, of my age] have a right to claim anything over successes women of your generation had. We just "accept" equality. I suppose we fight if we don't get it, but we expect to get it anyway.

Thank you. Let me study first please 🤤

It's sad to say it, but we never really understand how HORRIBLE men can be unless we're suffered at their hands. I and some of my close friends are "survivors". NO I'm not pretending that men tried to kill us, but survivors of sexual assaults and/or rape. I KNOW the lengths men will go to in an attempt to rob me of dignity and control over my body.

That's encouraging - I feared it was lower.

And you absolutely should expect to get equality. We're half the population, it's an entirely reasonable thing to expect.

I get what you say OP! I am sick of seeing ‘sex’ replaced by gender, in policies, questionnaires, etc. As far as I’m concerned, any such questions me feel excluded. Quite ironic when the whole thing is meant to make everyone feel included.Also “gender” pay gap.

I wouldn’t actually mind if they had a sex bit and then also had a voluntary gender ID bit. Because I know gender is really important to some people. It’s just the complete erosion of biological sex that fucks me right off. I don’t have a gender ID and don’t want to pretend I do. I have xx chromosomes and some additional societal norms because of that. Some I choose to go with, some I don’t. Plus a completely different hormonal cycle.

Also, do people really think that male pattern violence goes away just coz someone puts on a dress and calls themselves Shirley? What on earth is everyone thinking?

@BrightGreenLeaves have a read or a listen to this, if you haven't already.

https://www.thehelenjoyce.com/joyce-activated-issue-94/

It is very recent, and some fab advice and reassurance on what we are talking about. If you don't have time for the whole article, scroll to the 3 general observations near the end go from there. I like the hall mirror suggestion.

Thanks, I’ll have a listen.

I hear you.

I’ve just had a similar survey and pushed back saying it’s fine to include gender identity (though give us the option to say we don’t have one) but we must not omit collecting data on sex, which is an actual protected characteristic. They agreed to change it. Feeling pleased to have had a minuscule success in a tiny corner of the world.

That’s actually great! I would feel very pleased if I got that. We’re gonna be doing a new staff diversity questionnaire soon so I will actually say that if they don’t include sex as well as gender ID. And also for there to be a ‘I don’t have a gender’ option.

our org has about 80 people in it. Surely I can’t be the only one?

There's ONS guidance on collecting data on protected characteristics. I think it's for the public sector but the principles are generally applicable. It might give some useful points to raise.

Ooh, thanks, I didn’t know that about ONS. I’ll have a look.

Just read this (fun Saturday morning) and the bit at the end is great. I think my line is gonna be International Women’s Day event and/or trans women working in women’s services. And also diversity questionnaires with no sex.

it's a govt funded organisation. They've recently changed their presentation about the Equality act (called it equalities and inclusion act, which is wrong wrong wrong)

Has your little org have checked with their legal people that they are not misrepresenting the law? Because Edinburgh University do know the law and the Equality Act 2010 and the legally protected characteristics, and they might not be too happy to work with an organisation that doesn't. The gender question is probably accepted practice at the moment (AFAIK best practice would have a separate question about sex as well) but mis-naming the Equality Act isn't.

Edinburgh University are a large and complex organisation and academics are not necessarily on top of everything but universities do care about their legal compliance. Fingers have been burnt in the past. No matter how right-on some academics may be in the end your organisation will carry the legal can.