I know this has been discussed before - gender at work.

[BrightGreenLeaves]

I’m just so fed up with it. It’s all about gender all the time. Despite the fact that we run separate male and female services.

Sex has completely been eradicated although I do occasionally push back and quote the equality act and protected characteristics. It makes me feel very nervous.

I know that being they/them or she/they is fundamental to some people’s sense of self. But I’m so fed up of that seemingly being the only diversity that matters. And the assumption that everyone believes in this.

Im fed up of everything being about what you identify as. For example self-identified men or women, or identifying as having a disability.

Im fed up of worrying about accidentally calling a woman she and not they.

Im fed up of wondering how I can feel like I’m on a completely different planet to all the nice people in my work who believe in gender absolutely. They are trying SO hard to be inclusive, which I really do understand. They all want to be so nice and welcoming to everyone, I get it.

Im fed up of wondering who agrees with me by seeing who puts their pronouns on their emails.

Im fed up of wondering what is going to be the moment where I finally have to speak up and completely alienate myself with all the nice people at work. I know I will have to at some point, maybe during an International Women’s Day event where they propose to have someone who identifies as a woman speaking. Particularly insensitive because where I work someone’s sex is so so important to their experience. Period poverty anyone?

Argh! Also fed up of auto correct not autocorrecting the word I’m above. I couldn’t be bothered to change it.

I’m dreading this coming into my work, as one of my bosses has a transgender child. I have my own little push back as I don’t ask the gender question that we are supposed to ask.

I'm not sure what 'identifying with having a disability' could mean? That someone who doesn't have one feels that they do? Like that weird mental illness some people get where they think they need to chop their own leg off as it's not meant to be part of their body?
It sounds pretty mad. Either you've a disability that needs reasonable adjustments or it doesn't make a difference to your work. Same as gender identity. It's just a case of, can you do the job or not? Nobody actually cares what you identify as.

I'm not sure what 'identifying with having a disability' could mean?

Self-diagnosed neurodiversity such as ADHD or autism, I'd guess.

I’m not sure about identifying as having a disability. Maybe it’s something that doesn’t have to be diagnosed.

(off topic - some people didn’t identify as having a disability even if other ppl would see them as disabled because as they would see it, they are fine and it’s society that disables them by not making the changes that would allow thrn to participate fully and equally)

I totally get you OP. So far my org other than suggesting pronouns in emails has been not too bad but I don’t know how long it will last….

This language was in the disability world long before It was being used for sex. In fact I think that's where it came from.

It was a big mistake to introduce it IMO, it was thought of as a harmless way to respect people's sense of themselves. Just like other areas infected by I'd pol, there was a lot of faffing around about what kind of language to use, and in the end they picked this up in part so people could just use what they liked and no one could get offended.

But obviously - you need an accommodations, or you don't. Beating around the bush so as to make people feel better is silly.

I knew someone with eczema who identified as having a disability. Maybe it's about that kind of condition that has a very wide scope of severity so one end might be a disability but not the other end.

Like arthritis is something that's occasionally painful for some people, completely debilitating for others.

It’s the assumption that everyone believes in it and agrees with it that I find hardest. I enjoy working in diverse teams, teams where people have differing backgrounds and viewpoints and are tolerant.

I don’t enjoy working in teams where everyone is forced into silence or compliance by some team members’ strongly-held personal beliefs e.g. being lectured by militant trade union reps, preached at by religious staff, told I need my chakras realigning/need to see a chiropractor rather than a physio/need to stop eating meat by New Agers, or preached at about the evils of cars by the office cyclist.

I just want people to bring their professional selves to work and leave their preferred beliefs & ideologies for their personal lives.

I went to the Sex Matters lobby day. The great thing about that was you had to really articulate the issues for yourself, as prospect of speaking with your MP. It makes it quite clear what it is that you really object to. Then speaking with other women who clearly object too, you then realise that your feelings are not "fed upness" but a reasonable response to a societal madness. There are many many of us.

So my suggestion is to join your local WRN or support another group aligned with your particular concerns (schools, health, single sex spaces, free speech). Because genuinely this will not actually change until enough women stand up.

You don't have to do it at work, have the outlet somewhere else where you can effect change and speak with people who speak truth. If someone spots you, well we are legally protected now thanks to Maya. Objecting to this is not because you are not nice. Actually it is because you are nice and you really care about people. The start of feeling ok about it all is to really articulate your arguments to yourself.

That makes total sense. I know a kid with eczema that is so bad he sometimes can’t wear shoes.

I was going to go the lobby day but my MP won’t engage. I emailed WRN ages ago but think there’s a backlog or something coz I’ve not heard back. I’ve looked at Let Women Speak but not sure if that group sounds a bit intense for me.

I think reading your responses, it’s the assumption that I have to agree that bothers me. Or the fear that people with think I’m awful if I say what I think. I love working with different people from different backgrounds but I don’t agree with all their beliefs. Religious people for example. But I’m able to have a fully honest working relationship with them because they don’t expect me to believe in god.

It really does seem to me that "we" are losing all the ground "we've" gained over the years. Women started out with very little, by working VERY hard on life they gained a fair amount (some was surface, but it was a lot compared with what "we" had), now it's all going again so that men can be called women, even if they don't have ANY of the necessary items to be like me.
A personal opinion.
Quotes round "we" because I'm 20 and don't want to be accused of taking credit for my sex's past successes!

OP I hear you. Same here. Especially the knowledge that if I aired my (very reasonable, deeply held and evidence based) "beliefs" that sex is binary, immutable and important, some colleagues and friends would decide I am a hateful bigot.

I love this post! Friend there are women who will always fight for women's rights. They are there in all the countries where they are practically non existent. They are here in the UK in growing numbers. Look out for them and join them. You don't have to go out on a limb on your own.

@BrightGreenLeaves my MP wont engage either. I take pleasure in reminding her that women care about this. She can't say she hasn't been presented with the issues at least. There will be other days for people to get involved in that aren't quite as intense as the Let Women Speak events. The complicity though is a problem isn't it? Surely, the people who wanted to change society should have argued for it, rather than enforcing it. Are we already effectively silenced? I think the fear is silencing people.

That’s the other problem. I feel like if I don’t speak out then I’m complicit. We actually have an online anonymous suggestion box at work. But not sure how anonymous it would actually be. Could they figure out it was me?

I just find it so hard that I can’t say ‘I don’t believe in that’. It makes me annoyed at those people who believe in gender. If they just said they believed it and I could say ‘oh that sounds interesting’ or whatever then I’d be ok.

But actually maybe it’s not just that. Adjacent to it is the distinct lack of safeguarding for vulnerable women. Luckily nothing has happened yet but the loophole is there.

I dunno really. There’s all these interlinked but slightly separate concerns. But it’s hard to say out loud that I think that a colleague’s non binary gender identity (harmless) is the thin end of the wedge to major safeguarding concerns. I have always worked in orgs where safeguarding is a major component. And it’s something I really really care about and it’s just being decimated.

@NPET your post gives me hope. It can be easy for us middle aged and older women to feel we're alone in recognising the risks - even when we were actively feminist in our youth there's nothing like pregnancy and motherhood and becoming a middle aged woman to help realise how much more sexist the world is, even than our youthful selves suspected. It's really encouraging to see younger women recognising how fragile and recent our rights to be treated as full human beings are.

"We" includes you [what a grammatically hideous and pronoun-heavy sentence but I hope you know what I mean!!].

I get it @BrightGreenLeaves The push for this has been so effective. First it silenced us all with the "no debate" mantra. Stonewall got its hold on organisations and no-one wants to be seen as provocative or uncaring. I do see it as complicity from each and everyone of us who go along with it. But I have to say I include myself in that at times (by omission) and I wouldn't harshly blame people, because it is our instinct to try to get along. But we are allowing it aren't we?

For me, it makes those who do speak out and act seem incredibly courageous and heroic. The thing probably is to keep interested, do what you can when you can. The worst thing is to think that it will become the norm by indifference or silencing. I do get it though. When I took the train to London that day I felt as if it was a stealth mission. I was even anxious about giving the address to the taxi driver. But I felt very very different on the way back. Standing up is very liberating.

God I was so worried about the sex matters day and telling my colleagues. But in the end I didn’t go so I didn’t have to say anything. It really is my instinct to get along with people. I’m not one of those confrontational people.

I am beyond impressed with the people who have spoken out. And I wonder what makes them different from me. I have been a whistleblower in the past, a very long time ago. It was so unbelievably stressful. And now I feel like I’m gonna have to go through that again at some point.

I keep practicing how to word things in my head so that I can say what I think but without upsetting anyone. But I know that it will upset people. And then I’m annoyed with myself for worrying what others think. But it’s hard in a tiny team.

The thing that makes me want to scream about all the "kindness" and "inclusiveness":

The group NOT included, and not (apparently) important enough to merit any of that "kindness" is only half of humanity. Women.

I'll believe you're trying to be kind and inclusive - and not just cool - when you include women.

Yes, that means there are some limits on trans-identifying men. That's the essence of respecting people's rights!

The women who went before did it for us.

The women here now do it for their daughters, and all the women to come.

We are all part of the 'we'.

I just feel such despair sometimes at the silencing. Dressed up as kindness.

And what I also feel sad about is that the non binary people at work seem genuinely such nice people. I really do think they have good intentions and I would love to connect with them more. But I just can’t when I feel like I have this massive secret.

I also don’t understand how so many people have suddenly forgotten what biological men can be like and the lengths they’ll go to to harm women.

Also, yes to we’re all part of ‘we’. Time goes fast and before you know it, the 20 year old will be 40 and will be another in a long line of women.

It's not easy to go against the flow. Take heart, OP. Things are changing.

I hope things are changing. I also want to be part of that change and speaking out at work feels like an important part of that. I’m just so worried about it.

Or not even speaking out, just not staying silent.