Oh no Rosie

[InandOutlander]

I'm so sad to see her go, she was the shining light within the Labour camp.

What about the constituents who wanted a Labour MP? An MP actually in the party who are now in government. An MP who (as a pp said) they hoped would influence Labour policy?

She’s being accused of having her nose in the trough for merely continuing to serve her constituents

No, for what looks like staying in the Labour Party long enough to keep her job, and then no further.

Why is she willing to take a principled stand only when she has guaranteed the next five years of income, and has lied about why this is fine?

Surely not self-interest?

Quite happy for her to trigger a by-election and win as an independent candidate. I would have a lot of respect for her doing that.

That would be a principled stand.

Exactly. She's not even joining another party. She's resigning the whip as others have done before her and the fact is that that action doesn't trigger a by-election. She's an MP for her constituency who believes she can do more good outside the party than in it because she can speak freely on subjects which matter to her constituents.

But if we are talking about MPs needing to go to by-election if they become independents then we are saying that there must be a by-election every time the whip is withdrawn as that means those MPs are also independents. Which also means no MP would risk voting against the government. At which point we no longer have constituent MPs, we merely have a party leadership imposing their ideas on the whole country.

Important point. Look at the seven MPs who had the whip withdrawn for voting against the two-child policy. The Labour leadership would love to be in a position where they could say, "Let's withdraw the whip from John McDonnell and then there'll be a by-election in Hayes and Harlington where he will be banned from standing as the Labour candidate."

I don't even like McDonnell, but I don't think that would serve democracy particularly well.

I think this is about not liking Rosie, not what's happened. Because I certainly don't recall the same posters being so vehement every other time somebody crossed the floor!

Yes, also:

But then, on here, we’re all familiar with women routinely being held to different standards from men. She’s being accused of having her nose in the trough for merely continuing to serve her constituents.

And have we forgotten that this is all about real noses in real troughs, not a woman earning money for doing a fucking job? I mean, isn't it easy to be wrong, when you are a woman. Amazing.

Those MPs have had the whip suspended for 6 months, not withdrawn completely.

So they are now independent MPs just like Rosie.

She has left the Labour Party, not had the whip suspended. I’m just pointing out that there’s a difference.

Why don’t you write to her and ask her? Of course, she isn’t accountable to you as you aren’t one of her constituents. So she’d be under no obligation to reply to you.

Her position is a matter for her and her constituents.

And on that point - you have repeatedly accused Rosie of wrong-doing / a lack of ethics in this thread, in increasingly strong-worded terms. Of having her nose in the trough. Of accepting “an unearned gift”.

If the various claims you’ve made about her ethics are not stuff and nonsense, and instead amount to being in breach of the standards of conduct expected of MPs (and led to a ten day suspension following a report by the Standards Committee) then this would enable her constituents - if they feel the same animus against her as you do - to submit a petition under the Recall of MPs Act.

Integrity like this is unfortunately a rarity in politics these days. I have huge respect for her and wish her and her constituents well.

Yes to this. Although with Labour some will try to undermine RD due to preferring their party

The other MPs also chose a course of action that meant they left the Labour Party.

How much easier it is to say ‘wah wah wah you just don’t like Rosie/you lurve Labour’ than actually address the points being made.

She was unhappy in Labour for a long time
She stood for election as a Labour candidate and was re-elected
She almost immediately left the Labour Party, saying she hadn’t been happy in Labour for a long time
She made a public moral judgment on those who play the system for financial gain
She said that quitting the party she elected as a candidate for almost immediately after the election was fine as her constituents would have voted for her anyway
She did not allow them to have their say on this, which is fine because it’s ’within the rules’.
She now gets to keep the £93k job she was elected to weeks ago as the Labour candidate for the next five years.

And posters are claiming that these are actions of the highest integrity.

If she wants people to think that she didn’t just hold out in Labour long enough to get re-elected then discover her principles around all the things she knew prior to the election, she has an easy way to prove that.

I can't help wondering why it's so much easier for certain people to be so much more angry with a woman who sees something badly wrong and says so than with the man who's accepted £100k in gifts while ridiculing the Tories for doing the same.

If Rosie hadn't dared to stand up in the Commons and talk about women's rights and GI we might be in the position of German or Australian women today. Isn't that why they really hate her?

This thread is about Rosie and her marvellous integrity? All of a sudden you don't want to talk about her?

MPs represent their constituents, some while affiliated to a party. Her letter suggests she feels she is better able to stand on the values and intentions she was elected for outside of the Labour party, and that she can no longer support their behaviour and choices.

If MPs had to stand for re election every time they left a party then MPs would be nothing more than yes-men for whoever was in power, who'd lose their seat for ever doing anything on principle. Interested to know if those who think she's behaved so unethically think she should consider her soul sold to Labour until the next election and just parrot obediently and brainlessly whatever they download to her? Or just carry on with that oh so very very pointless, hopeless last ditch belief of 'carry on trying to change things from the inside'?

Absolutely. But I think we all know it's not about that.

But no, she takes a salary for representing her constituents. And, as has been laboured in multiple PPs above, under our ‘constitution’ you vote for the candidate, not the party. So she is not getting a freebie, she is getting paid for doing her job - which I understand from people in her constituency, she does very well. Just as I voted for Jeremy Hunt (not being terribly tory) in past elections because he was a bloody good MP and had personally represented me and my family on some issues with the NHS and, recently, also the people in our road when we experienced almost weekly burglaries and confrontations in our homes from intruders. He/his team were really active in supporting us and getting our voices hear by the NHS, Surrey Police and the British Transport Police. Am hoping our new MP (new constituency) is as dedicated.

You can continue to be obtuse but the fact is: you vote for the human being when pitch up at the polling station. You tick their name. It is their name that is on the first line of the ballot paper. You do not vote for a party, even if you are playing games of trying to ensure that a certain candidate is NOT elected, you are nonetheless voting FOR their opponent. That people are utter idiots and do not understand this is their problem.

Rosie Duffield does not need to undergo a by-election - the fact that she has left the labour party does not mean that she is no longer left leaning or disagrees with the central tenets of left wing politics, OR that she will not vote in line with their policies/bills in parliament. She likely will do so because they align with her values and those of her constituents, as per her election campaign.

And now, of course, she is no longer forced to abstain on issues she feels will adversely affect her constituents because the party whip cannot be applied.

Bloody good on her, frankly.

Think @Anastomosisrex said the same as me, much more succinctly!!

Does this mean she can finally say things she wants to say without being told to tow the party line?

Yes, but she'll be that little more irrelevant now, so people won't listen.

Oh I don’t know 🤔 I’d listen to her.

43 MPs have "crossed the floor" since 2001. Of these, 2 have resigned their seats to cause a by-election. The convention is rather obvious and Rosie has followed it.

No. And that is patronising to her constituents, who have a right to be pissed off.