Moira Deeming defamation trial - Thread 2 from Australia

[TheSandgroper]

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5167282-in-australia-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-now-on?page=40&reply=138525746

Tribunal Tweets Substack https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/moira-deeming-v-john-pesutto-a-case?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share. Thanks to @BezMills

Thanks to everyone on thread 1. I am pleased it generated such interest and conversations. I have learnt a lot from many very bright women.

And yet… Starmer went to Trump Towers in New York … to reportedly build a relationship.

That is the political dynamic.

Exactly, this is one rule for thee again.

IF Trump wins the election then clearly our PM needs to be able to have a relationship.

But being wined and dined in Trump Tower?

So much hypocrisy.

Based on Pesutto’s logic any president/prime minister that has met with Putin, Kim Jong Un, etc are associated with them and their views. They’ve shared a platform.

Heaven forbid that opposite sides meet to share ideas and try to find a middle ground.

I didn’t think it was that hard to fathom either.

The UK Prime Minister (and Lammy too!) had dinner with Trump, a Presidential candidate, in Trump Tower.

The fact that Trump is only a candidate at this stage makes the power dynamic even more interesting.

Hang on, if some blogger with a website writes that Starmer is now extreme far right, hard right or fascist or any crap they want to throw at Starmer because of this interaction, will that blogger be considered a credible source? Even more credible if the blogger got used as a reference on Wikipedia?

And would Pesutto take that person’s statement that Starmer is now ‘far right’ as being more credible than anything Starmer said to the contrary?

Totally! And as I still haven't got round to sorting the auto renewal for my Labour party membership that means I'm now extreme far right by association. Thanks for nothing Starmer!

I think I'll just go back to bed!

We discussed this on the last thread about Meloni.

Leaders of countries have to "align" with other leaders regardless of whether they share politics. It is how diplomacy gets done. "Shunning" a leader is a major diplomatic move, only used in situations of last resort.

It is in no way comparable to Moira Deeming going to a rally with KJK. Or other GC people going to/appearing at rallies organised by Tommy Robinson.

A better comparison would be if Starmer was paid to address CPAC. Damn right I'd have something to say about that. I'd burn my labour membership and join the lib dems in a flash (even though they are TWAW)

You could just cut out the words you want from your post, and dump the context like Pesutto’s dossier on KJK’s supposed affiliations. “Starmer is now extreme far right, hard right or fascist” (this cut is for illustration purposes only).

There it is. Gospel proof. QED.

You could just cut out the words you want from your post, and dump the context like Pesutto’s dossier on KJK’s supposed affiliations. “Starmer is now extreme far right, hard right or fascist” (this cut is for illustration purposes only).
There it is. Gospel proof. QED.

Sorry, meant to quote.

It's completely normal because the Government will need to do effective business with the US government from day 1 and so UK govt needs to have an idea of how US strategy might change depending on who wins and plan accordingly. Also to break the ice so they can just get on with it.

I cannot see any way that's comparable with KJK meeting far right activists. Unless you are implying 1) far right activists are critical to KJKs success so its vital she has them on side and 2) she needs to align her strategy to theirs. Which is precisely the issue many people have. Most politicians don't want to be perceived to share strategic goald with far right extremists and white supremacists in any way.
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Well. Apparently Trump is to be considered a leader now so no can do….

But wait… KJK was an electoral candidate, a leader of Party Of Women, so can we use the rhetoric that she can meet with anyone she needs to meet to get her message out without recourse? And the period of time before she registered the party was just pre-registration….

I’m not sure shunning comes into it. Trump is not the president. Is it really necessary for heads of states to meet with opposition candidates for dinner in their private residences in the run up to elections?

Wonder what the democrats make of it ?

Depends if it was a man or woman doing the blogging. Man: credible. Woman: not credible, unless it’s a woman he’s trying to use it against and then it would be credible.

But that’s not what my post was about so not sure why you’re quoting me

Were you just trying to shoehorn in another Deeming/KJK reference?

I want to know if right wing people will be railing against Trump for cavorting with the Left, or whether they’ll just, you know, not blink an eyelid and move on.

Rather like when men do politics, it is perfectly normal to align to achieve aims. When women do it (and especially if it is to resist discrimination, or misogyny) they are just to be burned at the stake. Quite a use stance if women are to be prevented from organising properly.

Irrespective, I don’t know why people are still trying to smear Deeming and KJK as being, if not the N word, then sympathetic to the N word. As above, I would regard it as a duplicitous stance in order to taint women who are organising. It’s not working too well in the light of the defamation court case. In my opinion, from transcripts, it appears those trying to smear are being handed their arses and exposed as sly and mendacious.

Please tell me there is photo somewhere of Starmer sharing a coke with Trump (I'd say champagne but Trump doesn't drink alcohol does he?)

Well my opinion is the opposite. Deeming had to withdraw large chunks of her affadavit. Chrysanthou has not yet managed to have the same impact on Pesutto's statement. Sure, he's damaged reputationally but I'm yet to be convinced she will win her case.

That's why it's an interesting case to follow and I'm looking forward to seeing the judgement on it.

Ideally it would be good to discuss the gap between my perspective and yours, and why, but that is seemingly impossible.

Yes. So that if he wins they already know him and can hit the ground running. Even more important when there is major global instability (Ukraine/Middle East) and such a big difference in approach to the conflicts between Harris and Trump.

Let’s all remember, that talking to anyone on a video or a conference, or anywhere means that the you must be aligned with them, even if you are not. You get special dispensation if you are a ‘leader’.

Nobody can speak with anyone with the aim of changing anyone’s mind to consider something that they hadn’t before. The only time two people speak together or on a panel, or appear in the same room or on the same street, is when they are aligned.

And remember that the words of men in Nazi movements and trans rights activists are to be considered more credible than women’s words about themselves.

So Keir Starmer is aligning himself with the far-right. This dinner and the photos of it must mean KS espouses every policy that Trump espouses.

According to the BBC article linked to below, David Lammy has called Trump a "racist" and a "Nazi sympathiser" in the past.

How very disappointing for Labour supporters. They've obviously voted for a Trump supporter. <end sarcasm font>

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2439897mg2o.amp

Sorry, I forgot to add one.

I forgot that any person streaming an event you are speaking at or organised is someone you align with too.

Also from that article, it appears that KS hasn't met Kamala Harris! Who is the vice-President of the USA and also campaigning for election.

What are we to make of that? That KS expects Trump to win? That he wants Trump to win?

Oh. And another one and I believe this one is highly relevant.

If you point out that a President’s poor wording could lead to a person being harmed, you are aligned with the person being harmed. All because you said ‘hey, this is not a good thing someone can get hurt’!

I believe that Moira Deeming’s tweet to that effect has been called her support of Trump.

Still very open to see evidence of where she HAS supported Trump by directly stating ‘vote for Trump’. Maybe someone will provide the evidence for these claims one day.

So, if a major world leader says something you consider can directly and specifically cause someone to be physically harmed, apparently you should remain silent lest you are labeled a supporter of the targeted person.

You could call it "special dispensation" or you could call it "their job".

Why are you skirting round the core issue of who KJK spoke to and what the need would be to influence those people?

Harris didn't have time to meet him. It is on record he wants to meet them both.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvglnwvepj3o.amp

Why are we talking about the Prime Minister on a thread about an Australian MP and a UK activist? Bit odd.