Moira Deeming defamation trial - Thread 2 from Australia

[TheSandgroper]

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5167282-in-australia-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-now-on?page=40&reply=138525746

Tribunal Tweets Substack https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/moira-deeming-v-john-pesutto-a-case?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share. Thanks to @BezMills

Thanks to everyone on thread 1. I am pleased it generated such interest and conversations. I have learnt a lot from many very bright women.

I hope Eresh is ok with my reposting her links about Safe Schools and Moira. Posted 19/09/2024 10:23.

A podcast about the rise of the trans movement in Australia. Episode 4 and 5 cover "Safe Schools" and Moira Deeming's opposition to it

x.com/desexingsociety/status/1788753495228862767?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

open.spotify.com/episode/3f89mnA9Dq67otP0vOUTAU?si=VVk7H3DHTrCcaQPLoHvSMA

open.spotify.com/show/4dGEAzzAWsKqSdbpjVWtY7?si=8eKp5zizQvmrCR6c4Dx8lQ

And her post 19/09/2024 10:32

From the Desexing Society podcast episode 4 I linked below.

SF "The other teaching resource Moira found disturbing was produced by the Victorian Department of Education and Training. It contained some role playing activities.:"

MD "One of them asked them to do role play, as if they were a boy who had been forced to give his uncle oral sex the night before."

SF: "Moira sent me this document as well, it's called "Building Respectful Relationships: Stepping Out Against Gender-Based Violence. Some of the role plays involve girls being sexually assaulted and violent fathers bashing mothers. I wonder if anyone stopped to think how they might affect students who had actually experienced those things."

Had to Google it but holy crap, there’s a third Robert Katter! I didn’t realise that the infamous Bob Katter’s dad was also a politician. Robbie Katter, the third Katter, is now in state politics.

@BoreOfWhabylon Hellofabore is correct. The legal teams only got the recording about three weeks ago. Deeming recorded a meeting on 23 Feb 2023, so a different meeting.

yep. Bob Katter Snr was as much as a Queensland institution as the Bjelke-Petersens in that era.

I started reading through that last thread again, but it is a head fuck so I shall stop.

Sorry Bore. I know there was something said about why he ended up disclosing and also whether he suspected that Moira had a recording of her own. Which she had not.

I managed to watch some of the tribunal last night - does anyone know if it is possible to see previous days of the hearing - any links?

I thought that Sue Crysanthou seemed to be doing really well showing up Pesutto. She seemed to have a really good grasp of all of the issues. I'd be interested to see what happened previously with Moira's part.

How do you think its going overall?

I hope Eresh is ok with my reposting her links about Safe Schools and Moira. Posted 19/09/2024 10:23.

Absolutely!

Just popping back with an interesting link for lurkers, feel free to ignore me

https://michaelwest.com.au/city-builders-the-pentecostal-cult-driving-the-liberal-party-to-the-far-right-and-beyond/

This stuff just defies belief. Written by adults with zero care for safeguarding children but putting them in positions where they're exposed and vulnerable. No wonder people use accurate direct language!

@GreenUp No there’s no footage once the livestream is over. It’s illegal under Australian law to record, reproduce, etc any part of it, including screenshots. To have this sort of access to it is pretty new and amazing for us here in Australia.

@BoreOfWhabylon Pesutto was reviewing documents for court that his lawyers had given him. He read about Deeming having a recording of the Feb meeting and that apparently jogged his memory about Southwick? having mentioned having a recording of the March 19 meeting. He asked him if he still had it, told his lawyers, they obtained it and distributed it all parties as part of discovery.

In regards to Moira Deeming's religion, I believe she is a Presbyterian. She is not listed at all as being a Pentecostal christian (happy to see evidence about this).

And to repeat from the last thread, given the history of the Liberal Party in Australia, it is not unusual or controversial that MPs have a christian or any other religious belief. Nor is it unsurprising to find powerful factions grouped around this.

It is also not undemocratic that such MPs exist in Parliament. The Australian Labour Party also has a deep history of allowing MPs with religious beliefs.

Indeed, it would be significant if any Liberal Party leadership team tried to expel MPs based on beliefs that are considered acceptable by the charter of the federal Liberal Party.

If you read the article it explains more of the context, specifically mentioning Deeming and Renee Heath who have both featured in this trial. And discusses why the religious elements of the Liberal party are a problem for Pesutto.

The precise denomination Deeming belongs to is not relevant really.

That's interesting @Helleofabore .

It's always good to be aware of precise denominations when discussion ideological issues. I recall being lectured very seriously by a young Muslim boy who was being bullied by other Muslim boys for being from the "wrong Muslim sect". And putting 2 new to the school Nigerian boys together in a tutor group with the naive assumption they'd be "friends" without realising that they were from Christian groups vehemently opposed to each other.

Things like that really exposed my ignorance about different denominations and how they can intersect in society and how important it is to respect people's religious beliefs while reserving the right to disagree with them

For clarification, this article posted discusses Moira Deeming as an 'also'. It is not about Moira Deeming. And unless there is evidence presented that Moira Deeming opposes the current laws for people who are homosexual and bisexual, including those around conversion therapy, the article is irrelevant to Moira Deeming. Although, the author seemed to think it is ok to include her in this article therefore making her somehow involved.

Absolutely Mrs O.

Getting information that is as accurate as possible is very much on task for this court case.

Yet more smearing by association.

A classic "guilt by association".

I may be wrong, but due to this defamation trial, I rather suspect John Pesutto might be more a problem for the Liberal party, than the religious elements of the Liberal party being a problem for Pesutto.

I highly doubt Katter and Palmer get along. Palmer tried to recruit Katter in the early days of PUP and was rebuffed.

Katter is a “stick it to the man’ type but he believes in democracy and was the only independent who refused to give balance of power vote to Labor unlike the weasels Rob Oakshott and Tony Windsor. He said it was wrong to do this while standing as an independent, despite being promised the world by Labor.

He’s mad as a box of frogs, he’s absolutely beloved by his electorate including it’s massive indigenous population-his most successful voting booths are in indigenous areas. For all his eccentricities, he believes in free speech and is nothing, nothing like Clive Palmer.

So far, from reading the transcripts, Pesutto seems to reset back to default bluster mode after every time that Crysanthou shows him what he's saying is false.

It basically boils down to:

JP: Those three women are Nazis

SC goes on to dissect his relevant statements, as well as those of the three women, in detail, and with patient questioning gets JP to grudgingly admit that they are not Nazis or sympathisers.

JP: Okay, I accept these women are not sympathisers or Nazis.... but I still think they're Nazis, and I'm going to keep saying it.

Repeat ad nauseum.....It's ridiculous 🤷‍♀️

This week, I have only caught a little of yesterday afternoon. @UtopiaPlanitia I think Pesutto went very Neville Wran. Wran would have three words written on his palm and, no matter what question he was asked, his answer would reference his three words du jour. No. Matter. What.

I’ve woken up to news this morning to read that Starmer has had a 2 hour dinner with Trump at Trump tower to ‘build a relationship’.

According to the logic of some on this thread this must be proof that Labour is far right/ dictator aligned, no?

Don’t want to derail the thread to talk about Trump or Starmer , just checking how the guilt by association thing works?

oh noes….. did Starmer get a selfie took? You know those selfies taken show that Starmer is now a full far right fascist.

Actually, it would be the other way around. Trump is the politician holding rallies/on the election trail. He could be said to be Starmer-adjacent.

Honestly, I know you're making fun here, but it just sounds silly.

I think it means if you talk to anyone with whom you have any disagreement, it means that you are 'aligned' with them. The best course of action is to completely rebuff and ignore people; or even better get them canceled altogether. Purity and non contamination is of utmost importance. Image matters - especially on social media.

That’s the first time ever, in the history of threads about “aligning with the right” that I’ve ever read someone claim a right wing person is “aligning with the left”, despite frequently asking why it never works that way round. So well done, you’ve set a precedent now.

Will Trump supporters lose their minds about it? Will they go onto threads to rage about “aligning with the left”? Will other right wingers plop onto Trump forums to say that anyone who supports Trump should “open their eyes” at this slide left?

Or will they just shrug and move on?