Feel sad that more people in the media don’t speak up

[FizzyCow]

I know this kind of thing has been posted before but I just need to vent about it.

I just feel so sad when I think about writers and broadcasters who I always respected and I felt challenged the norm and made me think differently about things. In reality they are all just privileged, wealthy people who only look like they are rocking the boat but in reality they just care about virtual signalling to their friends.

Caitlin Moran is a big one for me. I always loved her writing, I know the area she grew up in and saw her as different to the usual champagne socialist types. Now I just see her as over privileged and so out of touch. She wouldn’t understand how today’s accepted transgender views could negatively affect poor women today.

The same for Adam Buxton. I loved that he had a variety of people on his podcast and covered a variety of topics. Now I just think about what he doesn’t talk about and why. I recognise I am being totally naive to think that he would care.

Similar for Jane Garvey, loved her so much but she is depressingly silent on the issue.

I know none of these people have to say anything but it’s depressing that they don’t.

I don't have an issue with celebrities, and mainly here I mean performers, who choose not to be political or wade into controversies. There are many reasons someone might not want their political opinions to be in the public eye, and I don't see why being an actor means they ought to be.

I have some sympathy for people like Margaret Atwood. Maybe in part because I've never seen her as so prophetic or been a fan of most of her work, but mainly because I think she is someone who is very much in a bubble and probably not well placed to pierce that bubble - this is a generation that really thinks the CBC is the be all and end all - I imagine she'd be truly shocked to discover how bad and manipulative their journalism is on many issues. But who is going to tell her?

I think the people that annoy me are the ones who make a show of being so counter-cultural and brave, and yet seem to invariably hold, without much thought, to the political beliefs of liberal professional progressives. Surely if they really were so attached to questioning the narrative, and so inclined to speak truth to power, they'd dissent on at least some elements?

Absolutely this.

no one really believes it.

Sorry, is the basic response of those with GC views to anyone who doesn’t hold the same viewpoint ‘my mind can’t comprehend your views therefore you must be lying’?

With respect, that’s just bigotry.

All the stunning and brave nonsense is beyond annoying too.

@ElleWoods15 you think biology is bigoted??

With respect as it is literally impossible to change sex anyone telling ppl that they can, or agreeing it can be done, is lying

people can no more change sex than they grow wings and take flight

No. But I think your basic failure to comprehend the fact that people hold different views is.

I didn’t know this about Marian Keyes, that’s so disappointing. She’s such an intelligent woman and such a strong voice on so many women’s issues - what a shame she’s married to someone like that. Would definitely put me off reading her again.

Same with Atwood. Just can’t see see her or read her in the same way after seeing her views on this - surely if anyone should get it, it’s her!

Ah like those ppl who hold the “different view” that the earth is flat

People are entitled to hold different views and I’m entitled to point out they are utter nonsense

The views here don't show bigotry. Genderism is a faith and questioning those who genuinely believe people can change sex is equivalent to an atheist who takes issue with Creationism or with a belief that the world was created in 7 days a few thousand years ago.
I have no issue with people having faith but I do have an issue with people pretending that their faith is scientifically accurate.
Believe what you like, but genderism shouldn't be treated as fact any more than Creationism is. Rather less actually because I'm not sure Creationism affects the lives and rights of half the population.

Goodness @ElleWoods15 you seem unable to accept a different view from your own.

Exactly.

Sex and gender identity are different. We get told this all the time.

Yes, sex is biology. It's fact. We advance our knowledge through science, for example the invention of the pill and IVF, or more recently the greater depth of understanding about DSDs. Many of us went on a crash course on social media via experts like Emma Hilton on DSDs during the boxing debacle at the Olympics. The key point here is that the facts don't change, it's just that our knowledge advances where previously it was more primitive. We go from hypotheses to confirmed, empirical facts as this happens.

Gender identity on the other hand is a belief. The belief that we all have an inner essence of maleness, femaleness or neither (and any blend thereof).

The bit where it becomes a lie is to let a child, or a vulnerable adult, believe that they can change sex or that they don't have a sex at all. Everyone has a sex. Nobody can change theirs. But what they can do is change their body to match their perceived belief that their gendered essence is in a physical body that doesn't match it. To all of us non-believers, this doesn't make sense... but live and let live, right? Yes, only if the person understands what they are doing to themselves and that others don't share their belief (so transwomen can't go demanding access to women's sports and spaces, for example). Similarly boys grow up with expectations to be adventurous, providers, emotionally strong etc.

Unfortunately the preachers of the belief use deliberately conflating language, which will confuse children and vulnerable adults e.g. "sex assigned at birth" to mean "gender identity assigned at birth"... which actually means that from the moment you're born you'll inherit a "bunch of expectations and limitations that you'll wear dresses, be gentle, take charge of all the childcare, prefer netball over football etc. because you're a girl".

Sex and gender identity are different. Sex is a fact. Gender identity is a belief which helps believers to explain why they feel how they do in relation to the expectations and limitations that are placed upon them. Some believers will find that the only way they can make sense of it is to identify as the opposite sex/gender.

Unfortunately I think some older female celebrities are at a time and position in life whereby they believe that it is very unlikely to affect them personally. They are established, successful and, in many cases, wealthy enough to use private facilities. I would put Mary Beard in that category too.

⬆️

Oops. Edit fail.

This bit...

Similarly boys grow up with expectations to be adventurous, providers, emotionally strong etc.

Was meant to be after "..... because you're a girl".

I added it as an afterthought.... in the wrong place 🤦‍♀️

I think that a lot of these people do think that people really change their sex. Or maybe better to say, are not the sex they appear.

There are a minority of people who have some sort of language based queer theory bollocks ideas, and some of them I suspect have confused themselves to the point they will believe anything potentially.

But there is a large group, and I think this is very very common in places like Canada, who really believe this is a scientific thing. I would put Margaret Atwood into that group. They think that in some real way the brain or mind of a trans person doesn't match the body. Many believe something like the hormone wash theory.

It's vague, but it's worth remembering that a lot of what most people understand about science is quite vague. And they are used to applying that to social justice questions. They've been told for years, for example, that it is objectively understood that homosexuality is innate and unchangeable and that this is the basis for many gay rights questions - in reality the scientific evidence of that is very scant indeed, it's more at the level of reasonable opinion.

Very few people will be able to talk in a knowledgeable way about genetics, black holes, or cell division. So they aren't all that put out that they can't explain gender and sex.

I don’t know what makes you say that. I’m perfectly aware there are different viewpoints and am not the one swearing off certain celebs because they don’t share mine….

@ElleWoods15 it’s biological fact not a view.

Sorry, what is?

That you need two X chromosomes, or a vagina, to be a woman is a viewpoint, not a fact. And as you are very well aware, it’s a viewpoint that many people disagree with you on.

It’s a fact.

All the points of view in the world won’t make anyone without two X chromosomes female.

just saying stuff does not make it true. If you can provide evidence of anyone, anywhere, anytime, ever changing sex I am all ears. I can wait.

Interesting that it's only ever put the one way. I don't think I can remember someone coming here and saying it's only your opinion that you need a Y chromosome to be a man.

It's almost as if there's a difference between the sexes.

Woman's Hour is a great disappointment. Only Jenni Murray has been in full support of sex reality. Emma Barnett just tinkers around the edges.

Exactly. You would have thought that a wholesale new thing of "gender identity" which is different from your biological sex would need its own words. Instead we are expected to pretend that the sex of women and men isn't significant and replace it with a self-chosen identity of woman or man or even non-binary.

Such a huge illogical cultural shift should have required much open discussion and initially much ridicule. Yet somehow people were coerced into pretending they believed it and by the time most of us noticed we were fearful of losing our jobs or being ostracised if we spoke out.

At least this whole situation has opened my eyes to how manipulation works on a large scale. I will never wonder how nazi-ism or other totalitarian states were created again.

It's a fact

You're treating it like a view point which how religion works. You're entitled to your view. But it doesn't mean this fact also becomes a view point.