Neil Gaiman Accused Of Sexual Assault Pt II

[hihelenhi]

As we're nearly at the end of the first thread, let's make sure we keep the topic current.

There have been five women now who have spoken to podcasts about the predatory behaviour of Neil Gaiman.

First thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5112128-neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault

What strikes me is that it's clear Gaiman hasn't tried to talk to her about it to give his side.

That sounded pretty honest to me. Nothing she'd personally ever seen or even suspected so very hard to believe, but equally not dismissing.

Yes I agree, I thought Gaiman would have been on the phone to her to say, it's not the way it's being presented. But it doesn't sound like he has.

That article came through on my news feed and have just read it.
I do believe that she was devastated, him being godfather to her daughter and in such a position of trust. It's taken five months for her to speak out, but I'm glad she has, it will mean a lot to some women and girls.

Definitely.

Thanks for the link. It's a relief to know where she stands. I had come to believe she was standing by him, which made me feel very uncomfortable about what her music had meant to me in all the years I'd been such a big fan.

Also can't believe Tash is 24 now. I remember how careful she was to hide her face in the first few years of her life, and how excited fans were that they got to see her for the first time when she released Welcome to Sunny Florida (yes, we were that obsessed).

I had a brief professional connection with someone who is a friend of Gaiman's, and who said - at a meeting where we discussing having Gaiman talk at an event - that he had kept that part of his life from her, and that she had never seen any behaviour like that described on the Master podcast.

Interestingly though, she agreed that we could no longer plan to involve Gaiman in the event. And she didn't try to defend Gaiman.

Interesting that Amos doesn't try to defend Gaiman. Simply says she didn't see that behaviour - but doesn't go on to say "And I don't believe the Neil I know would do that."

Interesting.

She does sat, That's not the Neil I knew and not anything I've ever heard.

I don't know. She comes across as insincere to me. But I've not followed her career, I don't know much about her and maybe that's just how she speaks. I didn't feel like she said anything real or authentic. But at least she's said something.

Thanks for sharing, @Binglebong. I'm so relieved. I feel silly how emotional I am to know Amos is not dismissing the women's stories and she's called Gaiman a wolf in sheep's clothing.

My life would be poorer without her music, it nourishes my soul. But I couldn't listen any more if she'd said anything in his defence.
Maybe it's just my desperate attempt to defend her, but I looked up the story of their friendship when the Tortoise podcast was released because I wondered how she could have missed this. Gaiman approached Amos after Me And A Gun had been released, and asked to meet her. I just wonder, was he shoring up his own good reputation? How calculated was this? Even in the 90s in the throes of my fan-girling, before I'd read anything of Gaiman's and thought he must be wonderful if Tori liked him, I always found their friendship strange in the way it was kind of publically performed for their fans.

“She says it’s devastating for the women involved” unequivocally indicates she does believe it to be true. It honestly sounds like he’s completely ghosted her (and probably all his other friends) as it really doesn’t appear she’s discussed it with him. I do wonder what he’s up to, he’s completely disappeared it seems. I wonder whether he’ll ever publish anything again? I suspect we haven’t heard the last of him.

@wrongthinker I agree. I cannot imagine being so close to a friend to make him my child's godfather and not speak to him and challenge him about the allegations. They've known each other for decades. I couldn't ignore it. That seems extremely odd to me. Didn't one occur in her Cornish home? It sounds like they haven't communicated at all.

One of the women who has made allegations against Gaiman says he mentioned Amos to her, and said he could get her full-time work on the singer’s rape helpline – a reference to the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN), the largest anti-sexual violence organisation in the US.

Grim.

She probably has, she's always come across as quite hot-headed, but perhaps he didn't answer or perhaps they had a big row. I can see why she wouldn't get into the ins and outs of it in an interview. She might have said more but maybe the Guardian decided not to publish it since they seem to be so afraid of being sued.

My feeling on what she said in that interview had been considered carefully and at length. It's very clear and unequivocal to me. Probably also took legal advice.
When I say carefully considered I don't mean in a cynical way because what came to light for her in July cut right to the heart of her personal, familial and charitable interests.

Just read the Tori Amos article, devastating for her given her work.
What a bastard the man is.

Given how this type like pushing boundaries her being a strong anti rape campaigner probably added to the thrill.

150 days since allegations of sexual assault were made against Neil Gaiman, who has yet to respond.

I was reading Megan Twohey in the New York Times article on the smearing of Blake Lively, and thinking about this thread. It's now more than 6 months, and we have heard nothing from Gaiman or his representatives.

But we know from what's come out about the "reputation management" character assassination regarding Ms Lively's requirements for behaviour on the film set (requirements that set a very low baseline for decent human behaviour, actually) how PR firms can plan to control or destroy a public person's reputation.

Interesting that Gaiman has done nothing like this ... maybe he realises he can't do a PR job in te face of solid good journalism?

Thanks for reviving this one - we still haven't forgotten, Neil!

As I recall, he did initially do the "bemused" act and say something ridiculously misogynistic about consensual relationships and how Scarlett was essentially someone troubled who invented things, but I can't remember if that was in the podcast or not or afterwards and it sort of died out after later episodes came out and it became obvious that this was a long term pattern of behaviour from him.

Either way, his pals at the Grauniad (well, Miranda Sawyer at least) are STILL largely claiming that it's not cut and dried, "consensual" etc. But Tori Amos has at least now quietly but publicly distanced herself which is good, and he's been largely "cancelled" in reality, although not with the kind of overt bile, smears, threats and hatred that people like JKR, for instance, got for expressing unfashionable opinions on womens' reality and literally putting her money where her mouth was in supporting rape victims. Quite unlike Neil Gaiman.

Interesting that Gaiman has done nothing like this ...

I think there are 3 factors.

It's easier to create a negative perception than to make one go away omce it's escaped into the wild - with Blake Lively they got ahead of the story and undermined the woman before most people had heard the accusations about the man.

With Gaiman there are multiple women speaking out. So not only are they playing catch up, they'd have to undermine the credibility of 5 or more women - which doesn't look as credible.

And finally you need a compliant client - who realises they've done something wrong, and cooperates with advice about how to fix it.

There's a C5 programme on Weds about celebs who were cancelled this year, JKR will be on it, wonder if dear Neil will be?

And finally you need a compliant client - who realises they've done something wrong, and cooperates with advice about how to fix it.

Indeed. And Gaiman is nowhere near that sort of compliancy. He appears not to think he's done anything wrong.

I've not forgotten, Neil.

Apparently there is an article coming out soon. It's been approved by the mods on this subreddit but I've no idea whether it's going to shed any new light on anything.

(Quite disturbing to find in the comments that he's in a new relationship 🤢)

www.reddit.com/r/neilgaimanuncovered/s/proF9EU8pj