Neil Gaiman Accused Of Sexual Assault Pt II

[hihelenhi]

As we're nearly at the end of the first thread, let's make sure we keep the topic current.

There have been five women now who have spoken to podcasts about the predatory behaviour of Neil Gaiman.

First thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5112128-neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault

I'm just so pleased that it didn't disappear. I really thought it would but you can only try and keep something under wraps for a certain amount of time if you're a bad actor. Threats of legal action will work above the line, but whisper networks become microphones and speakers when you've carefully cultivated a highly bonded fan network. Ironically, what made him successful will be his downfall.

I'm glad the Wiki page has it now - I hope it stays.

I keep typing and deleting this next bit. I can't get it out of my head- and you may well not want in in yours so may wish to scroll past.

Gaiman seems.to be drawn by 2 primary factors: women he sees as being in a 'subservient' position that gives him leverage, and women aged around 20. Either will do, but both together are preferable. Episode 5 of the podcast mentioned a few times that Caroline Wallner has daughters but didn't mention their ages. If she was 50 when she moved in, it's quite likely her daughters were in their teens or early 20s, and 'I'll evict your mother' is quite the lever. I do hope they were safe.

I do agree that a gradual descent into obscurity is the most likely outcome. He seems to be pretty washed up creatively anyway. And a quiet cancellation would at least cause the pipeline of young women to dry up.

I can't see his celebrity friends turning on him. For the long term friends - what do you do in this situation? That's why I don't like any attempt to shame Tori Amos into a statement, because they were so close for so long that, if she isn't in denial, she must be feeling horribly conflicted.

But I think the more mercenary types will quietly drift away from him. Not necessarily out of disgust - I don't think David Tennant gives a fuck about women's safety - but simply because he's not useful to their careers any more.

I know David Tennant has a reputation as a wannabe national treasure, but I think he Ius a grifter.

His wife has just re voiced Jilly Cooper's Rivals on audible, just as he is appearing in the new series

WRT to the word getting out, teenage DS - a massive fan of Good Omens - announced sadly at the weekend that the show is on hold and asked if I knew why.

I said yes, been waiting for him to mention (he knows and respects my terfiness, but has to reconcile it with very wokey friends including one who's trans-identifying).

He did say 'innocent till proven guilty', but agrees that on what NG has already admitted to he's a worthless sleazy scumbag even if not actually technically a criminal.

I'm relieved.

91 days since allegations of sexual assault were made against Neil Gaiman, who has yet to respond.

The journalists behind the story.

93 days since allegations of sexual assault were made against Neil Gaiman, who has yet to respond.

Cassandra - I think you can give up at 100! He's not going to say anything now.

Yeah I agree. Let's leave it at 100, just for the sake of your sanity! We can obviously keep the thread going.

I'm so vexed it's gone on this long. Back in July I didn't imagine we'd get to this.

Disappointing, from him, from the various industries he's involved with, from his peers.

Sadly, unsurprising.

@teawamutu - has Good Omens been definitely put on hold then?

If so, that’s a surprise……and rather interesting….

No definite statements yet, but it seems so: www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/good-omens-season-three-production-suspended-b2610154.html

94 days since allegations of sexual assault were made against Neil Gaiman, who has yet to respond.

Well, this is very interesting!!! Thank you!!

I see that the Independent is actually pointing the finger at Gaiman for the potential reason for the suspension too.....

I wonder if it will continue filming but disassociate itself from Gaiman? He was executive producer - I wonder if they think that the show still is viable if he removes himself from that role (or is pushed to do so)? Obviously he'll always be the writer though so for me, it will still be unpalatable. It's got a big following though - I'd be surprised if they bin it off completely, especially as filming seems to have started, albeit that it's currently paused....

Twatty David Tennant doesn't give a shite about women's rights so I'm sure he'd have no qualms about continuing.

"Non consensual sex"? Wouldn't it be handy if there was a word for that?

I'm sick of the way language is being mangled to take away clarity.

A wee bit rapey?

A few years ago this phrase came up in my degree. I emailed my tutor and asked why the term 'rape' wasn't being used since rape isn't sex. She said she wasn't sure, but that maybe it was to make it more inclusive. I genuinely can't get my head around that.

Since then I've seen it used a lot and each time it makes me wince. It's like the term 'child porn'. It's language that's biased towards the perpetrator, it's all about him and what he was getting out of it. It's like going up to someone and punching them and calling it a 'non-consensual boxing match'.

She said she wasn't sure, but that maybe it was to make it more inclusive.

More inclusive of other acts that don't involve penetration with a penis? I think that because the legal definition of rape is so narrow, to say 'non consensual sex' may actually be broader/more inclusive. But I agree it's not a good term, for the reasons pp have said, and not sure why they can't say, e.g. 'coerced sex' or 'sexual assault'.

Since we had a poster on an adjacent thread (obviously a good well-intentioned person) arguing just the other day that to be a sex act it has to be consensual and that if it isn't consensual it isn't a sex act, I can only conclude that sex-positivity has metastasized into something toxic, and stripping the sexual element out of male predatory and violent acts is part of that.

Call a spade a spade. Sexual assault, rape.

I wish there was a different word for 'sex' that could be used in these situations. You don't want to just call it 'assault' because the sexual element makes it obviously a specific type of assault. But I feel like people are misled by the word 'sex' or 'sexual' and it doesn't have the same power to shock and horrify as it probably should. I can't think of any other words that would work though. And maybe it's not the words themselves that are the problem.

So much everyday heterosexual sex is rape/assault adjacent. A big reason people don’t want to kick over that hornets nest, is we’d all have to do an awful lot of soul searching that most aren’t ready for.

“I’ll tell you what’s wrong with this world: there are far too many servants of lust and nowhere near enough masters of love.”

“I’ll tell you what’s wrong with this world: there are far too many servants of lust and nowhere near enough masters of love.”

Where is this wonderful quote from please, Dervel?

96 days since allegations of sexual assault were made against Neil Gaiman, who has yet to respond.

1. Porn has a lot to answer for.
2. Even without porn, there's an inherent power imbalance in the biology of heterosex because one person invades the person's body and the invaded person can become pregnant as a consequence.

Maybe the radical lesbians of the seventies had a point?