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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Statement on the gender critical movement and the far right

1000 replies

hellotowel · 14/08/2024 22:32

https://x.com/GCAntiFarRight/status/1823790909462602205

"We, the undersigned, are deeply disturbed that populist messages particularly targeting Muslims have gained traction among significant numbers of social media accounts associated with the gender critical movement."
Read and sign our statement below.
https://gcantifarright.wordpress.com/2024/08/13/statement-on-gc-movement-and-the-far-right/

Statement on the gender critical movement and the far right

Since the horrific murders in Southport on 29 July, the UK has seen an alarming outbreak of far-right violence, with organised gangs targeting mosques and setting fire to asylum hostels. It is clea…

https://gcantifarright.wordpress.com/2024/08/13/statement-on-gc-movement-and-the-far-right

OP posts:
Thread gallery
34
MontagueMoo · 16/08/2024 14:45

all she gets is criticism and sneers

And lots of people turning up to support her at her events. And the money she gets from selling t-shirts.

Yes she occasionally sails close to the edge

That's a rather kind way to put "she doesn't think trans people should be employed or be allowed to rent property" and "makes a lot of dog-whistle posts about Islam".

Imnobody4 · 16/08/2024 14:53

MontagueMoo · 16/08/2024 14:45

all she gets is criticism and sneers

And lots of people turning up to support her at her events. And the money she gets from selling t-shirts.

Yes she occasionally sails close to the edge

That's a rather kind way to put "she doesn't think trans people should be employed or be allowed to rent property" and "makes a lot of dog-whistle posts about Islam".

Do you have a link for the Little Rainbow Book of Dog Whistles. Do you know I can't hear them- help me out.

MontagueMoo · 16/08/2024 15:00

Imnobody4 · 16/08/2024 14:53

Do you have a link for the Little Rainbow Book of Dog Whistles. Do you know I can't hear them- help me out.

I'll repost since you've missed these before.

I note you have nothing to say about outright transphobia from KJK, nor the fact that she's gained quite a lot from her activity.

Not least, apparently, an army of followers prepared to turn a blind eye to some pretty questionable behaviour.

Statement on the gender critical movement and the far right
Statement on the gender critical movement and the far right
FredaWallace666 · 16/08/2024 15:06

I did warn you

timenowplease · 16/08/2024 15:07

MontagueMoo · 16/08/2024 15:00

I'll repost since you've missed these before.

I note you have nothing to say about outright transphobia from KJK, nor the fact that she's gained quite a lot from her activity.

Not least, apparently, an army of followers prepared to turn a blind eye to some pretty questionable behaviour.

Can someone explain what the problem is with those two tweets? I don't get it.

MorrisZapp · 16/08/2024 15:08

I went to a Let Women Speak event and it was absolutely bloody amazing. She is amazing. No, she isn't a feminist. Yes, she probably leans more towards the Sun reading demographic politically. But she brings women together and gives them a voice, all while looking awesome in a jumpsuit. Can't be arsed with purity spirals.

BackToLurk · 16/08/2024 15:09

FredaWallace666 · 16/08/2024 15:06

I did warn you

Nah, you were part of 'everyone I don't like is Hitler', which makes it much harder to flag up the actual far right. You're part of the problem. Now off you trot

theilltemperedclavecinist · 16/08/2024 15:20

One of the reasons why I started reading this board was that my trans friends started complaining about an upsurge in transphobia linked to far right ideology. US Republicans and Christian fundamentalists were funding British TERFs like Maya Forstater. Helen Joyce was an anti-semitic conspiracy theorist (and pervert and plagiarist). Keira Bell was a white supremacist (no, me neither).

They genuinely believe it, and if I did too, then I would definitely see this letter as the GC movement falling out with its far-right co-conspiracists and trying to distance itself from them.

Does it matter? Yes, because this taint exists in the minds of many people whom the GC movement hopes to persuade. Politicians, civil servants, media and charity bosses, education and health service management: all the people that run the country and read the Guardian.

What can we do? I have one close friend who works for a select committee, and believes in this conspiracy. If I could change their mind, I feel as though I would have done more good than with a thousand mumsnet posts (no offence, but I'm preaching to the choir here). But I can't, and it worries me.

myotherdogisadonkey · 16/08/2024 15:22

@IwantToRetire yes I have also seen those letters. Who says I haven't also supported those too? 😀

nfkl · 16/08/2024 15:22

@Flibflobflibflob thank you so much for your post

Imnobody4 · 16/08/2024 15:23

Where are the dog whistles, still can't hear them.

TinselAngel · 16/08/2024 15:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BackToLurk · 16/08/2024 15:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MsNeis · 16/08/2024 15:32

Maybe I'm uneducated, but I for one didn't know of the existence of this GC "movement"... I thought we were adult autonomous women having a grasp on reality.

TinselAngel · 16/08/2024 15:32

I think this is a sentiment that we can all come together for
Holding hands across the barricade...

BackToLurk · 16/08/2024 15:35

TinselAngel · 16/08/2024 15:32

I think this is a sentiment that we can all come together for
Holding hands across the barricade...

Two verses of Kumbaya and then back to the trenches?

CorvusPurpureus · 16/08/2024 15:39

BackToLurk · 16/08/2024 15:35

Two verses of Kumbaya and then back to the trenches?

Quick kickabout in No Man's Land, watching out for escaping balls? 🤔

TinselAngel · 16/08/2024 15:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BackToLurk · 16/08/2024 15:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

And lo, a brief moment of unity was torn asunder by the censors. Sad times

Imnobody4 · 16/08/2024 15:53

theilltemperedclavecinist · 16/08/2024 15:20

One of the reasons why I started reading this board was that my trans friends started complaining about an upsurge in transphobia linked to far right ideology. US Republicans and Christian fundamentalists were funding British TERFs like Maya Forstater. Helen Joyce was an anti-semitic conspiracy theorist (and pervert and plagiarist). Keira Bell was a white supremacist (no, me neither).

They genuinely believe it, and if I did too, then I would definitely see this letter as the GC movement falling out with its far-right co-conspiracists and trying to distance itself from them.

Does it matter? Yes, because this taint exists in the minds of many people whom the GC movement hopes to persuade. Politicians, civil servants, media and charity bosses, education and health service management: all the people that run the country and read the Guardian.

What can we do? I have one close friend who works for a select committee, and believes in this conspiracy. If I could change their mind, I feel as though I would have done more good than with a thousand mumsnet posts (no offence, but I'm preaching to the choir here). But I can't, and it worries me.

I agree with everything you've said. I don't have any brilliant solution. I think the rot set in at universities and even earlier in schools.
I really dont know how we reach the ones that now have power. Evidence doesn't work.
Feel quite depressed really.

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 16/08/2024 16:09

For 'balance'

A GC letter response

"A GC Letter Response
Aug 16, 20244*
Uncategorizedd*
To the writers of the GC anti far right letter,
I read your letter entitled “statement on the gender critical movement and the far right” and given the gravity of the allegations within it, felt compelled to write back.
You write: “We, the undersigned, are deeply disturbed that populist messages particularly targeting Muslims have gained traction among significant numbers of social media accounts associated with the gender critical movement, and that one major account in particular has actively fanned the flames of racist violence…”
Can you please describe these “populist messages” more clearly or give examples of this horrible targeting of Muslims as human beings? Especially from a “significant” number of accounts and from any more prominent gender critical accounts? I understand that you must believe this involves fairly prominent, or well known, voices or else there would be no need to write a letter.
It would seem to be a basic mark of respect for your readers that you should describe the behaviour being engaged in clearly enough for them to understand what is being discussed, and to highlight who is doing it.
Many of us have not been aware of this targeting. What we have seen is an increase of criticism towards the more extreme elements of Islam, since October the 7th, which has been a result of the very real antisemitism that flooded to the surface in the wake of an atrocity.
Of course that antisemitic prejudice was not limited to those following the religion of Islam, and it was horrifying to see how Jews in Britain were being treated more generally. Yet it is undeniably true that there has been a sudden and stark awareness for many people that parts of the Islamic religion foster antisemitism. When we combine that knowledge with the level of misogyny, and oppression of women and girls, that we can see in countries where the religion is dominant it is completely understandable that any movement for women’s rights would have a particular interest in discussing this.
On “TERF island”, specifically, the excesses of the Christian religious right, for example, are not significantly present so they do not currently constitute an ongoing threat to our rights and way of life. We are a largely secular country, and enjoy more freedoms as a result of this. Discussions about any especially patriarchal religion being increasingly adhered to in our country, then, becomes a matter of common sense and integrity for all feminists. For all women who don’t call themselves feminist but care about women’s rights as well.
As a further question, I would like to know what actions you have taken about the “major account” who you say “actively fanned the flames of racist violence”?
From your description it sounds like you believe that account engaged in active incitement that directly led to racist violence. This would be a crime. Writing an online letter about someone who has actively caused violence, in such a way, would be a woefully insufficient response. I am sure, then, that you must have taken additional steps if you sincerely believe this to be the case. What were those steps?
You make it clear that you will not stand with anyone who
“justifies or incites the violent scapegoating of immigrants and minoritised communities, including the violent and criminal anti-Muslim leader who calls himself Tommy Robinson and those who support or defend him.”
Given that the letter is aimed at the GC movement, it can obviously be inferred that you believe there are accounts within the movement who have “justified or incited violent scapegoating” I.e that when hotels were being set fire to with people inside of them, you are saying that there were women in the gender critical space, egging that behaviour on and in support of it.
I would be absolutely horrified if this was the case, as would many others. So if you value the movement for women’s rights , it is an imperative that you name names and instances. Instead of putting suspicion of the most murderous and mob-like instincts over all of us.
Over all of the women who have spent years painstakingly trying to demonstrate the reason, logic and humanity of their arguments to protect women’s rights. Work they have done in the face of insane accusations of collusion with the far right from trans activists.
Those accusations of collusion have been used to justify violence, and threats of violence, against us. “Punch a TERF” justified itself precisely because “punch a nazi” was already considered to be a reasonable slogan and activists insisted we were largely the same thing anyway.
Agreeing with them, then, that some among our number are practically nazis, even when you draw the line at punching us, stands only to inflame these conversations further.
For all women, not just those who you accuse but fail to name. And I say women here, repeatedly, because we all know the GC movement is still largely populated by women.
Expecting people to sign your letter, despite its vagueness, in order to be cleared of such serious suspicion strikes me as irresponsible. Especially when the will to violence, and the will to incitement of violence, against us is already so widespread.
It should really not need to be said that the vast majority of us abhor male violence and consider the world to be less safe because of the existence of that violence.
That we do not want women and girls of any community, including those who are Muslim and Jewish, to be at greater risk of male violence because of anything happening in the world.
Women and girls often bear the brunt of political unrest and wars.
I believe I speak for a lot of women when I say we stand with all of them in the face of that.
Even as we criticise men of all demographics for what they continue to do to our sex.
When it comes to the part where you wish to distance yourself from anyone who likes Tommy Robinson, things become much more complicated. On a personal level, I support your right to refuse to work with anyone whose politics or personality you find to be repugnant.
On a movement level, though, you have offered no compelling argument for why women’s opinions about any man should be the method by which we include or exclude them from a conversation about their own rights.
Personally, I don’t think we should make any man that important.
No one can (or should) compel you to work with any woman but neither is it ethical to try to compel the rest of us to collectively shun her. After all, she still has just as much right as the rest of us to demand the law and our society recognise her humanity and stop rewriting her for the benefit of a particular subset of men.
Lastly, like many women in the movement, I was horrified to see the violence on our streets and I was distressed to see hotels being set on fire, so I must say again that I simply cannot understand the failure of your letter to name accounts who you think revelled in that violence. Especially as their alleged comments were presumably already public.
Nor do I understand why notable signatories, like Simon Edge, refuse to provide any proof of further accusations they are now making such as that some gender criticals were “cheering the rioters on” as they “set fire to mosques with people inside”.
You are at risk of impugning the movement via repeated insinuation, rather than through reasoned evidence.
If we are talking about the very real consequences of heightened rhetoric, you might consider that the accusations you have levelled at our collective door, without the respect of offering any proof or specificity, may have consequences for all of us.
You might consider that such a letter does not stand to make anything materially better, or to actually address what you state your concerns to be.
All it stands to do is to wash your own hands while trying to stick mud to a large number of other women.
As a matter of integrity, the assertion that the women’s movement against trans ideology now has an active association with the far right, and with the recent violence perpetrated in Britain, is so very serious that you must demonstrate it. Most especially if you are sincere about the movement being able to address it in any way.
To simply put it in a letter, and sign it, solely for the reason to publicly proclaim that you are not racist like you think some unnamed other women are, unfortunately, seems like a narcissist’s endeavour.
I want to make it very clear, however, that there are women I respect amongst the signatories.
I realise they didn’t write the letter, and I understand that their own principles will have been guiding them. They wanted to make it clear that they are against racism, and that racism is always of concern to them. In that, I can stand with them absolutely. I just could not sign such a reckless letter in order to demonstrate it.
I look forward to a substantial response,
Yours sincerely
A fellow TERF
P.S I have put this letter anonymously on WordPress because I understand that this is how you wish to conduct such an important conversation
"

MsNeis · 16/08/2024 16:21

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 16/08/2024 16:09

For 'balance'

A GC letter response

"A GC Letter Response
Aug 16, 20244*
Uncategorizedd*
To the writers of the GC anti far right letter,
I read your letter entitled “statement on the gender critical movement and the far right” and given the gravity of the allegations within it, felt compelled to write back.
You write: “We, the undersigned, are deeply disturbed that populist messages particularly targeting Muslims have gained traction among significant numbers of social media accounts associated with the gender critical movement, and that one major account in particular has actively fanned the flames of racist violence…”
Can you please describe these “populist messages” more clearly or give examples of this horrible targeting of Muslims as human beings? Especially from a “significant” number of accounts and from any more prominent gender critical accounts? I understand that you must believe this involves fairly prominent, or well known, voices or else there would be no need to write a letter.
It would seem to be a basic mark of respect for your readers that you should describe the behaviour being engaged in clearly enough for them to understand what is being discussed, and to highlight who is doing it.
Many of us have not been aware of this targeting. What we have seen is an increase of criticism towards the more extreme elements of Islam, since October the 7th, which has been a result of the very real antisemitism that flooded to the surface in the wake of an atrocity.
Of course that antisemitic prejudice was not limited to those following the religion of Islam, and it was horrifying to see how Jews in Britain were being treated more generally. Yet it is undeniably true that there has been a sudden and stark awareness for many people that parts of the Islamic religion foster antisemitism. When we combine that knowledge with the level of misogyny, and oppression of women and girls, that we can see in countries where the religion is dominant it is completely understandable that any movement for women’s rights would have a particular interest in discussing this.
On “TERF island”, specifically, the excesses of the Christian religious right, for example, are not significantly present so they do not currently constitute an ongoing threat to our rights and way of life. We are a largely secular country, and enjoy more freedoms as a result of this. Discussions about any especially patriarchal religion being increasingly adhered to in our country, then, becomes a matter of common sense and integrity for all feminists. For all women who don’t call themselves feminist but care about women’s rights as well.
As a further question, I would like to know what actions you have taken about the “major account” who you say “actively fanned the flames of racist violence”?
From your description it sounds like you believe that account engaged in active incitement that directly led to racist violence. This would be a crime. Writing an online letter about someone who has actively caused violence, in such a way, would be a woefully insufficient response. I am sure, then, that you must have taken additional steps if you sincerely believe this to be the case. What were those steps?
You make it clear that you will not stand with anyone who
“justifies or incites the violent scapegoating of immigrants and minoritised communities, including the violent and criminal anti-Muslim leader who calls himself Tommy Robinson and those who support or defend him.”
Given that the letter is aimed at the GC movement, it can obviously be inferred that you believe there are accounts within the movement who have “justified or incited violent scapegoating” I.e that when hotels were being set fire to with people inside of them, you are saying that there were women in the gender critical space, egging that behaviour on and in support of it.
I would be absolutely horrified if this was the case, as would many others. So if you value the movement for women’s rights , it is an imperative that you name names and instances. Instead of putting suspicion of the most murderous and mob-like instincts over all of us.
Over all of the women who have spent years painstakingly trying to demonstrate the reason, logic and humanity of their arguments to protect women’s rights. Work they have done in the face of insane accusations of collusion with the far right from trans activists.
Those accusations of collusion have been used to justify violence, and threats of violence, against us. “Punch a TERF” justified itself precisely because “punch a nazi” was already considered to be a reasonable slogan and activists insisted we were largely the same thing anyway.
Agreeing with them, then, that some among our number are practically nazis, even when you draw the line at punching us, stands only to inflame these conversations further.
For all women, not just those who you accuse but fail to name. And I say women here, repeatedly, because we all know the GC movement is still largely populated by women.
Expecting people to sign your letter, despite its vagueness, in order to be cleared of such serious suspicion strikes me as irresponsible. Especially when the will to violence, and the will to incitement of violence, against us is already so widespread.
It should really not need to be said that the vast majority of us abhor male violence and consider the world to be less safe because of the existence of that violence.
That we do not want women and girls of any community, including those who are Muslim and Jewish, to be at greater risk of male violence because of anything happening in the world.
Women and girls often bear the brunt of political unrest and wars.
I believe I speak for a lot of women when I say we stand with all of them in the face of that.
Even as we criticise men of all demographics for what they continue to do to our sex.
When it comes to the part where you wish to distance yourself from anyone who likes Tommy Robinson, things become much more complicated. On a personal level, I support your right to refuse to work with anyone whose politics or personality you find to be repugnant.
On a movement level, though, you have offered no compelling argument for why women’s opinions about any man should be the method by which we include or exclude them from a conversation about their own rights.
Personally, I don’t think we should make any man that important.
No one can (or should) compel you to work with any woman but neither is it ethical to try to compel the rest of us to collectively shun her. After all, she still has just as much right as the rest of us to demand the law and our society recognise her humanity and stop rewriting her for the benefit of a particular subset of men.
Lastly, like many women in the movement, I was horrified to see the violence on our streets and I was distressed to see hotels being set on fire, so I must say again that I simply cannot understand the failure of your letter to name accounts who you think revelled in that violence. Especially as their alleged comments were presumably already public.
Nor do I understand why notable signatories, like Simon Edge, refuse to provide any proof of further accusations they are now making such as that some gender criticals were “cheering the rioters on” as they “set fire to mosques with people inside”.
You are at risk of impugning the movement via repeated insinuation, rather than through reasoned evidence.
If we are talking about the very real consequences of heightened rhetoric, you might consider that the accusations you have levelled at our collective door, without the respect of offering any proof or specificity, may have consequences for all of us.
You might consider that such a letter does not stand to make anything materially better, or to actually address what you state your concerns to be.
All it stands to do is to wash your own hands while trying to stick mud to a large number of other women.
As a matter of integrity, the assertion that the women’s movement against trans ideology now has an active association with the far right, and with the recent violence perpetrated in Britain, is so very serious that you must demonstrate it. Most especially if you are sincere about the movement being able to address it in any way.
To simply put it in a letter, and sign it, solely for the reason to publicly proclaim that you are not racist like you think some unnamed other women are, unfortunately, seems like a narcissist’s endeavour.
I want to make it very clear, however, that there are women I respect amongst the signatories.
I realise they didn’t write the letter, and I understand that their own principles will have been guiding them. They wanted to make it clear that they are against racism, and that racism is always of concern to them. In that, I can stand with them absolutely. I just could not sign such a reckless letter in order to demonstrate it.
I look forward to a substantial response,
Yours sincerely
A fellow TERF
P.S I have put this letter anonymously on WordPress because I understand that this is how you wish to conduct such an important conversation
"

🙌

Shortshriftandlethal · 16/08/2024 16:24

BackToLurk · 16/08/2024 12:28

Do you police everyone? I responded, a few pages in, to the OP. I've responded to some specific comments. Where's the policing of posters who said 'show us the tweets', then went quiet when they were shown the tweets?

On the contrary it feels as if you are here to police and cast aspersions.

I hate all of this carry over from twitter......why do we need to analyse it here?

I'm getting deja vu.....

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 16/08/2024 17:09

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 16/08/2024 16:09

For 'balance'

A GC letter response

"A GC Letter Response
Aug 16, 20244*
Uncategorizedd*
To the writers of the GC anti far right letter,
I read your letter entitled “statement on the gender critical movement and the far right” and given the gravity of the allegations within it, felt compelled to write back.
You write: “We, the undersigned, are deeply disturbed that populist messages particularly targeting Muslims have gained traction among significant numbers of social media accounts associated with the gender critical movement, and that one major account in particular has actively fanned the flames of racist violence…”
Can you please describe these “populist messages” more clearly or give examples of this horrible targeting of Muslims as human beings? Especially from a “significant” number of accounts and from any more prominent gender critical accounts? I understand that you must believe this involves fairly prominent, or well known, voices or else there would be no need to write a letter.
It would seem to be a basic mark of respect for your readers that you should describe the behaviour being engaged in clearly enough for them to understand what is being discussed, and to highlight who is doing it.
Many of us have not been aware of this targeting. What we have seen is an increase of criticism towards the more extreme elements of Islam, since October the 7th, which has been a result of the very real antisemitism that flooded to the surface in the wake of an atrocity.
Of course that antisemitic prejudice was not limited to those following the religion of Islam, and it was horrifying to see how Jews in Britain were being treated more generally. Yet it is undeniably true that there has been a sudden and stark awareness for many people that parts of the Islamic religion foster antisemitism. When we combine that knowledge with the level of misogyny, and oppression of women and girls, that we can see in countries where the religion is dominant it is completely understandable that any movement for women’s rights would have a particular interest in discussing this.
On “TERF island”, specifically, the excesses of the Christian religious right, for example, are not significantly present so they do not currently constitute an ongoing threat to our rights and way of life. We are a largely secular country, and enjoy more freedoms as a result of this. Discussions about any especially patriarchal religion being increasingly adhered to in our country, then, becomes a matter of common sense and integrity for all feminists. For all women who don’t call themselves feminist but care about women’s rights as well.
As a further question, I would like to know what actions you have taken about the “major account” who you say “actively fanned the flames of racist violence”?
From your description it sounds like you believe that account engaged in active incitement that directly led to racist violence. This would be a crime. Writing an online letter about someone who has actively caused violence, in such a way, would be a woefully insufficient response. I am sure, then, that you must have taken additional steps if you sincerely believe this to be the case. What were those steps?
You make it clear that you will not stand with anyone who
“justifies or incites the violent scapegoating of immigrants and minoritised communities, including the violent and criminal anti-Muslim leader who calls himself Tommy Robinson and those who support or defend him.”
Given that the letter is aimed at the GC movement, it can obviously be inferred that you believe there are accounts within the movement who have “justified or incited violent scapegoating” I.e that when hotels were being set fire to with people inside of them, you are saying that there were women in the gender critical space, egging that behaviour on and in support of it.
I would be absolutely horrified if this was the case, as would many others. So if you value the movement for women’s rights , it is an imperative that you name names and instances. Instead of putting suspicion of the most murderous and mob-like instincts over all of us.
Over all of the women who have spent years painstakingly trying to demonstrate the reason, logic and humanity of their arguments to protect women’s rights. Work they have done in the face of insane accusations of collusion with the far right from trans activists.
Those accusations of collusion have been used to justify violence, and threats of violence, against us. “Punch a TERF” justified itself precisely because “punch a nazi” was already considered to be a reasonable slogan and activists insisted we were largely the same thing anyway.
Agreeing with them, then, that some among our number are practically nazis, even when you draw the line at punching us, stands only to inflame these conversations further.
For all women, not just those who you accuse but fail to name. And I say women here, repeatedly, because we all know the GC movement is still largely populated by women.
Expecting people to sign your letter, despite its vagueness, in order to be cleared of such serious suspicion strikes me as irresponsible. Especially when the will to violence, and the will to incitement of violence, against us is already so widespread.
It should really not need to be said that the vast majority of us abhor male violence and consider the world to be less safe because of the existence of that violence.
That we do not want women and girls of any community, including those who are Muslim and Jewish, to be at greater risk of male violence because of anything happening in the world.
Women and girls often bear the brunt of political unrest and wars.
I believe I speak for a lot of women when I say we stand with all of them in the face of that.
Even as we criticise men of all demographics for what they continue to do to our sex.
When it comes to the part where you wish to distance yourself from anyone who likes Tommy Robinson, things become much more complicated. On a personal level, I support your right to refuse to work with anyone whose politics or personality you find to be repugnant.
On a movement level, though, you have offered no compelling argument for why women’s opinions about any man should be the method by which we include or exclude them from a conversation about their own rights.
Personally, I don’t think we should make any man that important.
No one can (or should) compel you to work with any woman but neither is it ethical to try to compel the rest of us to collectively shun her. After all, she still has just as much right as the rest of us to demand the law and our society recognise her humanity and stop rewriting her for the benefit of a particular subset of men.
Lastly, like many women in the movement, I was horrified to see the violence on our streets and I was distressed to see hotels being set on fire, so I must say again that I simply cannot understand the failure of your letter to name accounts who you think revelled in that violence. Especially as their alleged comments were presumably already public.
Nor do I understand why notable signatories, like Simon Edge, refuse to provide any proof of further accusations they are now making such as that some gender criticals were “cheering the rioters on” as they “set fire to mosques with people inside”.
You are at risk of impugning the movement via repeated insinuation, rather than through reasoned evidence.
If we are talking about the very real consequences of heightened rhetoric, you might consider that the accusations you have levelled at our collective door, without the respect of offering any proof or specificity, may have consequences for all of us.
You might consider that such a letter does not stand to make anything materially better, or to actually address what you state your concerns to be.
All it stands to do is to wash your own hands while trying to stick mud to a large number of other women.
As a matter of integrity, the assertion that the women’s movement against trans ideology now has an active association with the far right, and with the recent violence perpetrated in Britain, is so very serious that you must demonstrate it. Most especially if you are sincere about the movement being able to address it in any way.
To simply put it in a letter, and sign it, solely for the reason to publicly proclaim that you are not racist like you think some unnamed other women are, unfortunately, seems like a narcissist’s endeavour.
I want to make it very clear, however, that there are women I respect amongst the signatories.
I realise they didn’t write the letter, and I understand that their own principles will have been guiding them. They wanted to make it clear that they are against racism, and that racism is always of concern to them. In that, I can stand with them absolutely. I just could not sign such a reckless letter in order to demonstrate it.
I look forward to a substantial response,
Yours sincerely
A fellow TERF
P.S I have put this letter anonymously on WordPress because I understand that this is how you wish to conduct such an important conversation
"

❤️

A very important response, one we need now but also in the future, should this repulsive attempt to bring women down ever be studied.

AlisonDonut · 16/08/2024 17:12

MontagueMoo · 16/08/2024 15:00

I'll repost since you've missed these before.

I note you have nothing to say about outright transphobia from KJK, nor the fact that she's gained quite a lot from her activity.

Not least, apparently, an army of followers prepared to turn a blind eye to some pretty questionable behaviour.

No fucking idea what you are banging on about mate. Those both look exactly like the point she was making.

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