Would you go to this protest?

[Pumpkinz]

Students Against Tyranny are protesting tomorrow to keep female spaces female. They are a vile group, and the guy who heads it up is a staunch Tommy Robinson supporter. Anti Muslim, anti asylum seekers, full of hate. I want to attend the counter protest but the main aim of their protest is to keep female spaces female. A couple of my GC friends are attending because they want SAT to know they aren't welcome and aren't supported by women's rights groups. They promote hatred towards all trans people referring to them as 'the mentally unwell'.

Would you attend or support GC people attending even if they also agree with keeping women's spaces for women?

I wouldn't join a group I considered to be vile from the top down, no.

Forming or supporting a group that aligned with my views would be the optimal option, although easier said than done.
I'm not convinced mob groups achieve much, either.

Sorry it's a counter protest against students against tyranny. I didn't make that clear.

Thoughts?

If the SAT protest is specifically about keeping female spaces single sex, then I wouldn’t counter protest. If they are a generally vile group as you’ve described (sorry, never heard of them) then I wouldn’t protest with them either. Sounds like a good one to skip imo

I'd do this. wouldn't go to either

Oh sorry, completely misread that it was a counter protest!
Tbh i think these things aren't my thing anyway. If your view is "it's slightly more nuanced than one group outnumbering another group on the streets" then I'd give the whole thing a miss. The potential for violence is obviously there and we just don't need it.

I wouldnt go in the first place, too much conflict of interest, internally and out.
Why does one always have to nail colours to masts, especially when the waters are murky?
I'd keep my powder dry for a better more useful fight.

Pointless post. Anyone agreeing with TR gets deleted, so don't expect anyone to bother commenting.
Just my observation

I wouldn't go. Standing in the street shouting at people achieves nothing.

TR = Trans Rights? Tommy Robinson? Transport?

It would be much easier if TR kept his real name. SY-L would be a lot easier to assume.

I would see an opportunity to go to the counter-protest (if safe, of course) with a "feminists against fascism" banner or something like that. Refute the TRA narrative that places GC on the far right.

Yes but the assumption would be there that you were an ‘inclusive’ feminist

I would attend the protest against the group you describe. Partly because they sound so vile and wicked, but also because groups like that do so much damage to the GC cause because they create opportunities to smear by association.

So you have a leaflet saying "yes to single-sex spaces, no to fascists" etc.

People opposed to women's rights will be happy to grasp the thinnest of covers.

Women speaking up damages the women's cause.

Women being perceived to speak up damages the women's cause.

Women being perceived to speak in squeaky, high-pitched voices damages the women's cause.

Almost any opposition to the erosion of women's rights and safeguarding will damage the women's cause and safeguarding. Etc. ad infinitum.

Expanded Rules of Misogyny

• Women are responsible for what men do.
• Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
• Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
• Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.
• Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
• Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.
• Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
• Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
• Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.
• The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.
• Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.
• Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.
• Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves.
• Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.
• Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.
• Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

Posie Parker, Kellie Jay Keen is called a far right /racist /fascist by the left because she pointed out the fact that the Rotherham/Telford etc grooming gangs are principally Pakistani men. Why are people not allowed to state facts?

Can you please provide examples of what students against tyranny have said or done that makes them racist or fascist? Most people replying to your post seem to just be taking your word for it, which is a horrible example of group think. It’s what kept me from realising what was going on when I saw Graham Linehan called transphobic, and KJK called racist. I didn’t want to look into it any further because I didn’t want to be either of those things. Without the willingness to discuss with people whose ideas we profoundly disagree with we lose a fundamental part of democracy. How would any progress have been made in human rights if people were not prepared to listen to other people’s views? And finally, a key part of the rise of fascism was shutting down opposition and debate. It is Orwellian to call people fascist for trying to exercise their right to free speech while others try to silence them.

They have been involved in anti migrant protests and are aligned with far right groups (speaking on stage at events held by Tommy Robinson and endorsing him) - lots of harmful rhetoric around asylum seekers. They've called for the removal of all hate speech laws (not just around trans issues, but as a blanket removal). They previously downplayed atrocities such as the holocaust, and encourage hostility towards minority groups (one of which I belong to). They associate with groups such as the Voice of Wales who seemingly love and adore Tommy Robinson, and target hotels with refugees living in them for marches. Also not a fan of their claims that climate change is a myth. They're just a horrible, horrible group.

Yes, one came here as a Refugee and she wants to counter their rhetoric.

I'm sorry but either you have missed my point or have evaded it.

Without the willingness to discuss with people whose ideas we profoundly disagree with we lose a fundamental part of democracy.

While that's true, discussion isn't a point of these protests. That's why I steer clear. It's a blunt tool that mainly seems to serve people's desires to make noise and feel like they are doing something (which is understandable!).

Activists don't attend a protest based on who is in or out based on this weeks purity spiral. I would not attend either the demo or the counter demo, because I don't think the demo will be effective.
James Harvey has posted on Twitter saying that he has spoken to students and at least 10 of them agree with him but are too afraid to speak out. He thinks that a demo will give those students courage. I think he is mistaken.

Even if thousands of people attend, the demo won't give students the tools they need to stand up and speak out, because the demo will end and people will leave. And the students will be left in the same environment.

I think he has missed the point of activism versus social engineering. Activism is facts and evidence based. Social engineering depends on using behavioural methods and underhanded/covert tactics. Activists need to understand social engineering techniques to be able to counter them; but also so as not to mimic the same tactics.

You may be interested to read Phoenix's recent piece about grooming gangs. She lays out the background behind her claim and an overview of the grim legal frameworks for women and girls in prostitution and/or are vulnerable to grooming.

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/talking-about-asian-grooming-gangs

ETA: discussion thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5138663-5138663-talking-about-asian-grooming-gangs-some-history-and-a-few-realities-jo-phoenix?

Groupthink.... Not really.

It's taking something at face value when responding to a "Should I do X in Y scenario"

I'm confident if poster came on board and said "Can you help me sign this petition against SAT because they XYZ" - before people took their own action, they would do their own research/due diligence.

It's not groupthink to respond to an AIBU without an independent and verified document from a third party.