Jane Clare Jones blog on Tommy Robinson

[CassieMaddox]

Just a really great read
https://janeclarejones.com/2024/07/28/tommy-robinson-far-right-populism-and-gender-criticism/

These are my favourite bits:

The greatest danger to women and girls has always been, and remains, the men inside their own houses. This is the nature, and the devastation, of endemic male sexual violence. It usually happens in the place, and with the people, who are supposed to be most safe. It would perhaps be comforting to imagine that we could easily identify the men who are dangerous – the Muslims, the brown ones, the ones in dresses – and then we could keep ourselves safe by keeping them out. But the argument materialist feminists made throughout the early years of the gender wars applies equally here: men are a statistical danger to women as a class and there is prima facie no way of working out which ones are dangerous and which ones are not.

The argument is no longer ‘guilt by association’ or ‘purity politics,’ it is now a) What even is the far right anyway?, b) The far right doesn’t mean anything because I was called far right for knowing men aren’t women, c) You people think anyone who disagrees with you is far right, and d) He is not far right anyway. That is, it has moved from claiming that association with the far right is either not happening or if it is happening has no impact on the substance of GC discourse, to people openly associating with the far right and recycling far right talking points while denying that the far right is the far right.

But what feminist women have tried, largely unsuccessfully, to get across, is that these kinds of men are not on ‘your side,’ if ‘your side’ is genuinely defending women’s rights. These men are on their side, and their side wants a largely white patriarchal nation, in which ‘their’ women know their place and are ‘protected’ only insofar as ‘protection’ means keeping them guarded from ‘other’ men.

The pictures at the end of the article are very illuminating too.

Brava JCJ 👏

And what relevance is that to the point about far right politics in the GC movement?

Because @BackToLurk thought they were making some sort of "point" about it. Take it up with them 🤷‍♀️

I'm taking it up with you following this reply you made to Janeslittlegirl.

I don't understand the relevance of it to GC women being aligned with fascists.

Strange that when discussing that unnamed "event" in Brighton that JCJ has failed to mention the issue that rankled so much with her and her fan club at the time. Not the uninvited presence of members of Hearts of Oak but the presence and active participation of women who she might perceive as having far more clout than Aja, such as Maya Forstater, Helen Joyce, Helen Saxby - and was Stephanie Davis-Arai there too? I can't recall.

Yup, this has only ever been all about clout.

Thanks Bosky.

The UK Government in 2019 seems to have agreed with you as it has published this by the "Centre for Research and Evidence on Security Threats", although I don't know what they mean by "Christian-styled".

Recent developments among extreme neo-Nazi groupings in the US and UK have revealed inherent tensions between secular or Christian-styled neo-Nazis and those who embrace more spiritual interpretations of neo-Nazism. The influence of the fascist Satanist group the Order of the Nine Angles has caused rifts in some groups (Hope Not Hate 2019).

Overview of the Far-Right
Dr Benjamin Lee
Centre for Research and Evidence on Security Threats (CREST) Lancaster University, UK

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/834424/Ben_Lee_-_Overview_of_the_far_right.pdf

I'm genuinely baffled as to whether they are intentionally ignoring that point or so deluded that they believe it's not a thing? Where have any of us on here ever stated that "right wing women" should have less rights than other women? I've certainly never said that and i've not seen that ever. I believe that all women deserve the same rights, like another poster said regardless of whether they also hold views i find abhorrent.

It followed a post that called them scum. The Angela Rayner school of politics.

Except in the past I'm pretty certain i've seen you making very disparaging remarks about Christianity and about Christians, and even starting threads to dismiss women such as Miriam Cates.

I'll pay attention when there is rioting on our streets caused by that movement and loads of prominent women tweeting and retweeting it, when we have MPs elected to represent that movement in the HoC and its moving into mainstream discourse
I think we can all agree that Hamas is an Islamist organisation. The Jewish Chronicle is worried about at least one of the Muslim Vote MPs:
https://www.thejc.com/news/politics/new-muslim-birmingham-mp-questioned-rapes-by-hamas-ebwzkypg

This MP, it is true, is not representing Hamas, but he does sound somewhat supportive of them if he is keen to minimise what they did on 7/10. And the arrival of sectarian voting in England is a deeply worrying development. Any rise of Islamism in the UK is also concerning: it will be likely to reduce the freedoms of Muslim women here, and is very likely to drive deep divisions in British society.

For the avoidance of ALL doubt, I have some Muslim friends. I detest fascism. Anyone who is accused of sidling fondly up to TR will not get my support until I have checked out what has been said about them (but I will not take accusations at face value, because I know how much misrepresentation and over-generalisation goes on).

Ooh! Simultaneously the "intellectual socfem elite" and the "Angela Rayner school of politics"! I like it! It shows the absolute nonsense of the insults.

@CassieMaddox
Of course right wing women deserve single sex spaces. That doesn't mean they are above criticism for shitty far right views.

But should other GCs associate, organise & share platforms with them? that's the question isn't it?

I would say yes because to me the issues are separate, you/JCJ/a few others here might say no and left wing & right wing GCs should campaign separately?

Agreed Eresh, this thread has some very strange ideas flying about on it.

Time to revisit Dworkin's wise words, I think...

“Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy in behalf of women as a class, including all the women you don't like, including all the women you don't want to be around, including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don't want anything to do with anymore. It doesn't matter who the individual women are. They all have the same vulnerability to rape, to battery, as children to incest."

Yes, absolutely @terryleather

I was also going to quote her but I got sidetracked.

You didn't start a thread with the intention of people simply repeating the same message over and over again, surely? Threads take on a life of their own and the topic of that thread tends to act as a springboard for wider exploration and discussion.

I'm taking it up with you following this reply you made to Janeslittlegirl.

No, you're responding to me based on a silly argument from @BackToLurk. This is tedious.

Except in the past I'm pretty certain i've seen you making very disparaging remarks about Christianity and about Christians, and even starting threads to dismiss women such as Miriam Cates.

Quite. This thread is just bizarre.

Do i find anyone right wing (including women) be scummy? Yeah if they are trying to remove access to healthcare, abortions, rights etc. Much as i've seen many on this board say disgusting things about TRA who are female calling them traitors/scum/handmaidens and so on.

Whether i think someone is a twat or not doesn't mean i don't want them to have the same rights as me? Obviously they are still human so not sure where that assumption comes from really.

Ooh!

WTAF!! For the second time in this thread you have brought me up short with a horrifying revelation!

This seems on a par with Edinburgh Rape Crisis refusing to let women know about Biera's Place because it was founded and funded by that evil, bigoted TERF JK Rowling.

Utterly despicable!

(Sarcasm intended!)

Every day is day zero in Cassie world.

So basically can we boil it down to:

we all agree that left wing women and right wing women deserve the same rights. Cool.

Do we all agree that TR and other far right trying to get involved and influence women's right movement is DAMAGING for women?

Do you recall the riots in Leicester in 2022?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c0m2wr69355t

There are many aspects of 2 tier policing, but do people really believe Tommy Robinson understands the actual situation?

No. Do I think many privileged, middle class people handwave it away? Yes. Do I think disadvantaged groups are more likely to suffer, yes, we can agree there.

We would have to believe they were first though.

So we are in agreement then, so personally i don't see how anyone can say going to a TR rally about "2 tier policing" is going to actually be about the actual issue there is.

And yes many privileged middle class people do handwave it away - 2 tier policing does need to be sorted so the disadvantaged don't suffer any longer.

Glad we can agree and be polite about it.