Tinkerbell syndrome, pronoun badges and trans existence

[Alltheprettyseahorses]

Inspired by some posts in a now-full thread:

Someone in the workplace who is trans is literally existing as trans in public. Yet we are told that disagreeing with accessories like pronoun badges means we don't want transpeople to exist in public.

So - must trans necessarily involve others and is it so fragile an identity that it will disappear like Tinkerbell if not constantly affirmed by everyone around the transperson? Is not noticing the badge transphobic? As most people, including those with specific protected characteristics and including most transpeople to be honest, don't wear badges announcing their identity, does this mean they don't exist in public?

I would argue the sole purpose of pronoun badges is to involve others in the validation of a specific type of trans identity whether they consent to this or not and even if they don't understand they have been allocated as having a supporting role in someone else's main-character life. But speaking on a personal level, I have my own priorities and interests - I find it an imposition to be subjected to the macroaggression of being expected to change my natural language processes for someone who will never be part of my concerns.

(I don't normally start threads so if I don't come back I'm not shaving my hairy feet, I've probably forgotten or something)

Hardly. A "wee traumatised woman" wouldn't have the guts to keep going.

I'd change GC to trans in your last paragraph. The default would be no pronoun badges therefore the people who wear them are the ones making a fuss.

Showing pronouns on badges arguably makes it easier for second language English speakers, and those who struggle to remember or use pronouns. The contention that wearing a pronoun badge makes healthcare less accessible doesn’t bear up under scrutiny, at all. It’s just a trope of the transphobic fringe.

Complete nonsense. Completely illiberal, dishonest nonsense.

Showing pronouns that are obviously opposite-sex confuses people, adds an extra layer of difficulty to their communication, and increases the stress of accessing healthcare. Particularly as the patient needs to trust that the HCP has a solid grip on reality, does not reject science, and has the patient's best interests in mind (rather than being focused on their own self-validation).

Welcome to the 21st Century version of 1984. I don't think we need to wonder what George Orwell would have had to say on this aspect of coerced speech and coerced belief.

^The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
^
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

Nope, so why invent some justification for her self-serving hate-mongering.
She is a bad actor.

Indeed. "Gender euphoria" seems to be very openly the aim of the game for many people, and this seems to come primarily from being "correctly gendered" in public.

I am going to be having a hospital stay for surgery soon and I worry what I can say if confronted with someone wanting me to use pronouns which aren’t their obvious sex.
I believe in biology and do not wish to collude in the belief that sex can be changed but at the same time I am in a vulnerable position as a patient and don’t want to have an argument or be labelled as difficult.
Any suggestions on how I respond if I find myself in this situation?

Nope, so why invent some justification for her self-serving hate-mongering.
She is a bad actor.

lol. And people wonder why she might be concerned that she might be targeted.

Lol right back at you.
You equate criticism with an attack on her person?
By that measure, God help the people she trashes.

Isn't it dreadful @Blackcats7 that you have to even think about it?

Worry about your operation, that's natural, but to have the added concerns of being expected to play along with a lie to make a staff member a bit happier - ridiculous. Or to worry about a man being in the next bed to you - appalling.

I just wouldn't notice any pronoun badge. I had to confront my first pronoun round at a meeting recently (I just ignored it and gave the other info), but I had no idea what pronouns anyone else had said, I just wasn't interested in remembering them. It would have been the same if they'd said their star sign.

You realise you just compared a receptionist wearing a very commonplace, socially acceptable and totally legal badge, with actual nazis.

And positioned KJK who intentionally put herself into this very much non life-threatening situation, as right up there with holocaust survivors.

Shame on you, and shame on MN for allowing this board to fester to the point where this post isn’t even surprising.

Is it necessary to turn this thread into a TAAT about KJK? It may get deleted. Can we maybe just focus on the issues of pronoun badges/demands, of which there are many?

Use their name, from their name badge. It’s really not hard.

Or maybe like everyone on this board says so often, you don’t need to use anyone’s personal pronoun in their hearing, ever.

So that’s a relief.

A racist or misogynist could use the same argument. Both believe the idea of equality is a fiction held by those that they regard as lesser and complain about their language being policed.

A racist or misogynist could use the same argument.

And a fundamentalist Christian who wanted you not to express blasphemy could use your argument. I do not believe in any aspect of gender identity ideology. It's basically a religion. Other people do, good for them. But I won't defer to it in any way, like it's not really my issue if Christians/Muslims/any other believers have a problem when I say god doesn't exist, and I don't use the reverent language a believer does.

Nice try, @WinkyMcFlapFace, but insufficient thinking applied. Nazi insignia were legal and socially approved in the 1930s. And KJK's life has been threatened - daily, incessantly, and physically endangered on at least one documented occasion.

@WinkyMcFlapFace I'm leaving this one for you.
I'm still lolling in disbelief.
Or is this total irony and I'm just slow?

But it’s not though, it’s make believe. Why can’t people be helped to see themselves more clearly without this weird need for validation which, if anything, makes them even more vulnerable?

The vast majority of people seeing a he/him badge on a female will not shift their mindset to believing that person is a man. At best they will pretend and play along, at worst the trans person will be told they’re weird and left on the periphery - but I imagine we’ve all seen the fallout when a trans person realises that we don’t genuinely see them as their chosen gender, it’s akin to the worst transphobia.

The female demographic of the trans population is largely autistic, or mentally ill, or traumatised, in some cases all of those together. The same group that are at higher risk of dysphoric disorders (like anorexia), the same group likely to not understand arbitrary rules (like gender) and therefore more likely to be non conforming, a group that is vulnerable enough without being told they can change sex and everyone will see them and treat them as men, when in the majority of cases it’s simply not true.

In the case of other dysphoric conditions though the sufferer is not validated. No anorexic teen is treated with weight loss plans so their “authentic self” is respected. To do that would be cruel.

Our authentic self, if that is what we’re striving to accept, is not medicating or mutilating a healthy body or rejecting the sex we are, that’s anything but being authentic! It most definitely isn’t seeing ourselves clearly.

What would help is for gender to disappear, for people to wear whatever makes them feel good, or comfortable, to have long hair or short hair, to wear makeup or not, they are all personal preferences, part of our unique personalities, they do not play any part in what sex we are, and I can’t believe any intelligent adult would go along with an ideology that dictates that a girl more comfortable with short hair and playing with trucks and footballs is actually a boy (feel free to check out any story of a trans child - they all rely on rigid stereotypes).
How fucking depressing.

The other one is closed.
I did find it pretty amusing after your comment on that thread that you were a-OK with OP starting this one. I guess until it started going in a direction you don't like.

"That’s quite the re-frame, conveniently not mentioning the swearing, harassment, abuse and doxxing..."

Again, at the risk of being boring, this didn't happen.

The trans receptionist was not sworn at or abused.
Rewatch the video if you need to, there was no swearing at the trans member of staff (this was to a second member of staff on the phone) and questioning the use of blatant trans ideological symbols in a front facing NHS role is not harassment.

There is certainly re-framing going on here for sure, I agree.

And for absolute clarity before words are put into my mouth AGAIN, I don't and have never condoned KJKs behaviour.

But the fact is, the trans staff member was NOT sworn at, why do you insist on repeating this lie?

"I mean equally, the patient could avoid pronouns and then there is no "compelled speech" involved."

Changing my own language to suit the other person sounds like compelled speech to me!

Heretics fail to perform the correct pretence of belief and acquiescence.

Saying a transwoman is a man is 'denying' his existence. Failing to accept our Lord as our one true saviour.

It won't hurt to pretend you believe, so say the words like a good girl, be nice, be kind, do as you're told, be quiet, shut mouth, open purse.

Tedious bullshit.

What she said.

I did find it pretty amusing after your comment on that thread that you were a-OK with OP starting this one

I think the subject of pronoun display/coercion/entitlement is worth discussing.

It's not a minor adjustment though.

I do not believe in any aspect of gender identity ideology.

Same. I disagree with it profoundly. It's dangerous to women and even more so to children.

Therefore validating somebody's advocacy of it is an expectation that is going to remain unfulfilled.