Women's World Matchplay Darts

[FriedGold32]

The "Women's" World Matchplay takes place today, live on Sky Sports from 13:00.

At 13:30, Mikuru Suzuki faces a man, Noa-Lynn van Leuven.

The Independent have prepared for it by printing this pathetic woe-is-me puff piece about him.

inews.co.uk/sport/transgender-darts-star-noa-lynn-van-leuven-bullied-tournament-3180489

FFS. The Independent can go fuck itself.

All the arguments about whether males have any advantage over females in darts (for those wondering, yes they do) are irrelevant here. This is a women's event. By virtue of the fact that Noa-Lynn van Leuven is male, he shouldn't be permitted to compete in this event.

We don't hate you Noa-Lynn. But you know you're male. And we know that you know. You're not, and never will be, a woman. Do the decent thing and stay out of women's sport.

Got his arse kicked in the quarter final by Mikuru Suzuki. Who's a woman.

Good news!

Not necessarily. Getting beaten a la Laurel Hubbard is a gift to those who say 'transwomen don't have any advantage and don't dominate'. The fact is that Hubbard took one of only 14 women's weightlifting Olympian slots (ended up being 15 that year because the authorities were so embarrassed that Flowers, the favourite on form and a young woman of colour who'd overcome multiple obstacles in life, had been excluded in favour of the aging child of a weightlifting official, that they gave her a wild card entry). Hubbard is however an Olympian forever. Noa-Lynne is also competing at a high level - that IS dominating. Possibly may also not be very good - we can't be sure, because it may purely be the physical advantage rather than skill which is putting them up at that level.

As always, I wonder how on earth we got here.

I hear you @PT. I'm absolutely on board with the fact that the idiots who support this shit will cry: "Look, she doesn't have an unfair advantage: she got beaten".

That's why my current approach is to take a step back from the competitive advantage debate and stick to the simple facts. It's a women's competition and Noa-Lynn van Leuven isn't. A woman.

I was thinking back to the Euros last week and wondering why nobody thought to offer a place to Burkina Faso. They definitely wouldn't have an unfair advantage over the European teams. But they don't get to enter because it's a tournament for European teams. Where's the 'fluffy' Independent article about that? 🤔🤷

Rules are rules,except when they're not.

It doesn't matter if he got beaten, he still had an unfair advantage. The advantage gives you an unfair chance, it doesn't guarantee anything.

If someone is given a twenty metre head start in the 100m they still had an advantage even if they come last.

Oh, absolutely agree: 100%. But the hard of understanding find that, well ..... hard to understand 😳

So I'm trying to keep it simple. Let's see if I have any more luck 🙏

What advantage does a man have over a woman in darts?

Off the top of my head....
Reach, men are generally taller with longer limbs
Access to practice. Darts is massively male orientated and women face barriers to play & practice.
Power of throw will be greater, so will travel straight and be less likely to fall out & not count.

There will be more but I CBA to google it either @Laidbackguy

Whatever.
They could have zero advantages.
Males dont belong in womens sport.

Edit for random full stop.

I'm sorry but you're really stretching there on anything physical, have you seen the state of most male darts players?

Google seems to be on the darts isn't gendered side of the argument.

No sports were originally gendered. The categories were based on sex.

The female sex category is for females. Noa-Lynne isn't. By being there, Noa-Lynne has taken a place from an actual female. This is not fair.

Doesn't matter. It's called Women's World Matchplay Darts. There's a clue in the title about who should be eligible to compete.

1 - Men have, on average, an 8 inch greater reach than women. Darts are released at the limit of reach so the average man is effectively 8 inches closer to the board than the average woman.

2 - Men have a lower resting breathing rate than women and therefore throw from a more consistent base point.

3 - Men have a lower resting heart rate than women and therefore throw from a more consistent base rate.

4 - The average man has between 2 and 3 times the upper body strength of a woman. This means that they can generate the effort to propel a dart without moving their upper body.

5 - Men have a far higher ratio of fast twitch muscle fibres than women. This enables them to project a dart towards the target with significantly more power than a woman.

Over to you.

God I love the women of Mumsnet. Absolutely bullseye! 🎯 ❤️

What are you talking about @Laidbackguy?
What's BMI got to do with reach & upper body strength?

Why do you feel the need to advocate for males in women's sport? I'm interested.

In general, male people are also taller than female people meaning that they can throw a dart from a greater height. Meaning the increased power from their well documented increased power from muscles (including those fast twitch muscles) and hand grip strength goes into the stability of the dart. Ie they are throwing with the natural fall of the dart not having to add even more power to throw it upwards fighting gravity.

This also will give a difference in viewing perspective.

Leverage points are different also due to skeletal proportions. And even balance is different due to the q angle. Those hips never lie!

In womens' darts, players have the option to have the oche closer to the board. It's not just a sop, it's to make things more even, for reasons already pointed out.

Darts players are all shapes and sizes, Phil Taylor dominated darts for 30 years and is 5’6. The average woman in the U.K. is 5’7. Based on your suggestion why don’t darts players dwarf the NBA?

If strength, resting heart rate and muscle type is a factor in darts why is it a sport dominated by fat middle aged generally unhealthy men?

I’m not, I’m questioning why we need men and women’s categories where in a “sport” like darts where players are all shapes and sizes?

like why do we have a men’s abs women’s world chess championship?

You could make a thread about that then. It’s been discussed a lot on mn, there are some interesting threads about this.

You’re not very laidback about this are you? You can have several finely trained muscles and still be a chunky person as the overall calorie drain of darts practice is not the same as for the 100m sprinters. Is that not pretty obvious? Plenty of weightlifters look pretty solid, they are also pretty damn strong. excess weight doesn’t have the sporting cost it does in a sport where you have to propel it round a field /court/track so they don’t have that competitive motivation to be lean mean athletic machines.

You do realize even the height the bloody board is hung at is optimized towards the default male? I believe darts is mostly open rather than men's competition. If they truly believe in no male advantage let them move it 15cm lower.

And secondly, assuming for a moment there is NO make advantage then the charming "Noa" won't have any ill effects from cross-sex hormones either so no excuse at all for needing to invade the women's category (even that puff piece makes it clear he's already competing in the men's anyway.)

I’m not, I’m questioning why we need men and women’s categories where in a “sport” like darts where players are all shapes and sizes?

'We' might not need them. Why can't women have them if we want them? Lots of sports have all sorts of categories. Sex is pretty tame compared to three sword types in fencing, 8 (and counting) weight divisions in boxing, seniors, pro-am and on and on.

But women can't compete together because you don't see the need. For some reason.

I don’t really get the impression that Laidbackguy cares what women want.

The average woman in the UK is definitely shorter than 5'7". If you're gonna quote stats, then get them right!

Had a quick look. The average woman in the UK is just under 5'4". And Phil Taylor is just over 5'8". So, from Phil being smaller than the average woman, he's over 4" taller!!!!!