Review of suicides and gender dysphoria at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust

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Some very good news. Transpires that Jolyon's claim of increased suicides since puberty blockers were banned is incorrect.

Review of Suicides and Gender Dysphoria at the Tavi and Portman NHS Trust: Independent Report.

By Professor Louis Appleby, University of Manchester
Department of Health and Social Care adviser on suicide prevention

Aim of this review
I have reviewed data provided by NHS England (NHSE) on suicides by young patients of the gender services at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust, based on an audit at the trust. The specific aim is to examine evidence for a large rise in suicides claimed by campaigners.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-suicides-and-gender-dysphoria-at-the-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-foundation-trust/review-of-suicides-and-gender-dysphoria-at-the-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-foundation-trust-independent-report

Does BBC really think today was the day to write their usual wankery about Drag Queens?

I just idly searched the BBC news site for 'drag queens'. There's about 12 pages of stories. I also searched for 'Cass', and filtering the references to Mama Cass, a Port Vale footballer, and others, there's about three pages on her.

Oh I quite liked that article about drag Queens as it made it so clear there is a massive oversupply of them.

People's expectation of a drag show currently = multiple expensive costumes.

Drag artist income = £100 a show if they are lucky.

I suspect a lot of drag performers giving up as it isn't a viable mass entertainment.

Over what time period? Drag queens have been around since before the internet so that’s potentially a quarter of a century or so the BBC website could have stories about them, whereas the Cass report was commissioned, what, three years ago so even if the BBC reported regularly on it while it was ongoing, the drag queens will have a head start.

Not disagreeing that the BBC has a weird obsession with drag, btw, just wondering about your methodology.

Joan Smith has written about this in Unherd. I got sidetracked and lost the link 😬sorry.

Anyway, she wrote that LOJ has been tweeting about PBs and suicide. I thought he'd jacked in gender for Gaza. Does anyone know if he's backtracked following the report by Prof. Appleby?

The 12 pages is just up to last year, in fact that's a conservative estimate. See for yourself.

One of my guilty pleasures is "Bargain-loving Brits in the sun" and it seems every gay restauranteur on the Costas moonlights as a drag queen. Between them and the Almost Angelic type keyboard and singer acts, I wonder if there's any other type of entertainment.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=836011518438914

I understand that the BBC retained their LGBT etc "journalists" (I use the word with caution) during their last rounds of redundancies. Yet these specialist "journalists" appear to have missed virtually all the court cases, the debates, the tension between trans demands and women's rights, the safeguarding issues in relation to schools etc - or maybe they're too hard for them to report? But they have spent many hours of journalism reporting and publicising on the deep and meaningful contributions that men dressed as parodies of women make to society.

x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/1814329690980540841

@DSDaisy 😡😡😡 indeed

In Hannah Barnes' Time to Think book I think it said the Tavistock stopped testing for DSDs as it never came up. He is using it as an excuse. Some people with DSDs don't know until later and they don't get periods
/ can't have children

Prof Appleby has posted on twitter commenting on his report
x.com/proflappleby/status/1814939710965383178?s=46&t=aWQLrPtVicDNf6MQpq5WVg

Yes, even if we could be sure:

(1) the increase is real
(2) there is a causal link to the change in policy

That wouldn't tell us that puberty blockers are an essential and safe and proven medicine would it?

It could just be, that tragically, the policy change had triggered despair in already troubled individuals. But how much weight can you give to that risk when making medical policy?

Interesting and helpful.

I'm not sure I agree with him that gender identity is a cause of bullying: considering that failing to affirm is more or less a lynching offense in many schools, I'd suspect that a gender identity is more an escape from bullying rather than the cause of it.

And absolutely the next rational question is, why is this child vulnerable? Why is this child needing to escape their current low social status and what forms it, because gender identity is about creating an identity and about raising status.

And we're immediately into the list well known.

Autism, trauma, CSA, mental health struggles, socially vulnerable, depressed and anxious. (And 'anxiety' has become a catch all term for a massive problem in upper primary and secondary schools that's increasing.)

And it's all of it treatable. But largely isn't.

This is excellent news. I have to say Wes Streeting has handled this well. By commissioning a review and report from the top expert in suicide, he has brought clarity.

Agreed, credit where credit is due, I'm impressed.

Also agree. This is exactly how to do it. Listen, address it properly and seriously, and share the results as publicly as possible. Objective, professional, factual.

I am noticing the 'toxicity of the debate' seems to be very slowly gliding away from 'both sides' for very obvious reasons.

I tend to agree but I think it also depends on locale and individual scenarios.
I'm sure at times they do get bullied for their presentation and as the hold of gender ideology lessens I expect certain types will be emboldened to bully them more, unfortunately.

Interesting point being made on the X thread, around the claim that the number of deaths by suicide of those waiting for treatment were not considered in the report (which seems to me to be more alarmist scaremongering).

The last paragraph here (taken from the report) seems to show that those waiting WERE taken into consideration and that any causal attributions should be avoided (for any one element of care along the pathway) as they would go beyond the data.

Appleby's thread:

'My conclusions so far? Start with the fundamental issue. Young people with gender dysphoria face bullying, family conflict, isolation - risk factors for suicide. The risk is real. It is also complex. Single causes are unusual. Depression/anxiety are common. Also treatable.'

2/It’s right to point out that young people’s experience of health care may reduce risk. Applies not to one treatment but a whole system. Non-judgemental attitudes, skilled staff in primary care & CAMHS. Support while waiting or in a crisis.

3/Suicide prevention takes in the wider context beyond gender services. It’s about understanding young people’s distress & how the NHS & society as a whole should respond. About the national rise in suicide in young people over the last 15yrs - now 200 deaths/yr in <20s

4/How we discuss suicide matters. We need to extend media guidance to social media (below). No-one has justified the “dead child” rhetoric. Can we agree it should stop?

5/My review highlights the need for better, more comprehensive data. Bringing together gender services with national sources:
@NCMD_England
, reporting suicides in all <18s.
@NCISH_UK
, my own unit, recording suicides by all mental health patients with gender dysphoria

6/On this topic strong views, robustly stated, are inevitable. X is a polarising medium. Can social media ever be a forum that distinguishes belief, opinion & evidence? Not yet. And please, I’m not comfortable with my findings being the basis of personal attacks on others.

I am noticing the 'toxicity of the debate' seems to be very slowly gliding away from 'both sides' for very obvious reasons

Once that's done we just have to sort out hearing aids for Harriet Harman

I think the bullying of children who are a bit different in particular feminine boys and those who struggle to integrate socially has always been an issue and has nothing to do with “gender identity”.

The concern with making statements about bullying in relation to “gender identity” is that it could just be referring to other children saying “well that’s a load of nonsense” or not using pronouns or objecting to boys in the girls changing rooms or toilets or playing in their sports teams.

The last paragraph here (taken from the report) seems to show that those waiting WERE taken into consideration and that any causal attributions should be avoided (for any one element of care along the pathway) as they would go beyond the data.

Yes. Cass also explained, clearly and precisely to the HoC, about the bits her report was accused of having not properly considered or having discarded. I'll wait now to see if the same card is played of 'this doesn't count because x was discarded' hinting that if it had been counted, it would prove whatever the arguer wished it did.

As usual, the facts are set aside so that noise and spin can be created and people who tend to outsource their thinking are persuaded that it has been discredited. I'll await Mr Streeting's response, as I'm sure he's learning a great deal from all this.

https://x.com/ProfLAppleby/status/1815096931384692810

As an illustration of better suicide data on young people with gender dysphoria, our 2023
@NCISH_UK
report.

High rates of PD diagnosis, autism & eating disorders. Childhood abuse & past self-harm.

Suicide has multiple factors, as does prevention.

https://x.com/ProfLAppleby/status/1815101420775027050

Thanks to those genuinely asking how I went about my examination of data on suicides by patients with gender dysphoria at the Tavistock.

I’ll put together a thread soon. In meantime, suggest reading the report which explains my remit & data source.