Bit miffed by school...

[CactusMactus]

Received this email from school at 4pm yesterday:

"Dear Parents/Guardians,
We want to inform you that we will be hosting a guest speaker tomorrow to talk about building empathy for others and the importance of being yourself. This speaker is a member of the LGBTQ+ community and will share their experiences to help foster understanding and respect among our pupils.

Please note that this session is not a compulsory part of the national curriculum. If you prefer to withdraw your child from this 30-minute session, kindly let us know by the end of today, and we will make the necessary arrangements.
Thank you for your support."

So I emailed the school asking for a bit more information, I am totally cool with them learning about LGBTQ+ rights, experience and empathy for others... but there is zero information about who this person is and what their agenda is.

Full disclosure I am gender critical. And would object to my daughter being told she could be a man.

The school has not replied to me. So I am past the point of being able to choose whether my 8 year old listens to this talk or not!

Why would the school not share this information earlier? Surely this "person from the LGBTQ+ community" has had to be DBS checked prior to yesterday afternoon? Surely the school knows what the talk is about?

Any advice?

How do you know? The school has not given any details of the session at all.

I take it you don't have an 8 year old, or much experience with children of this age?

DBS checks in education are an essential safeguarding tool to ensure the safety and well-being of children and young people. If a person is to work in a nursery, school or college, they will require an Enhanced DBS and a child barred list check regardless of their role.

People talk to your child without your permission all the time

A 30 min whole year presentation on empathy doesn't sound like a huge risk to me. I'd be more inclined to think removing your child so they stand out from the rest of the year would be more damaging to them.

All such extra curricular sessions, especially in primary schools, need to be communicated to parents in advance; especially when the school itself has indicated that there could conceivably be a reason for a parent to want to withdraw their child.

I speak as an ex teacher. And you?

'Bit miffed'? I'd be fucking furious. Luckily I home educate all mine.

I'm shocked that you have responsibility for safeguarding given the attitude you display.

If the school believed that the majority of their parents would be happy with the speaker and the content, then why would they have been so vague, and sent the email at 4pm saying opt-outs need to be by "the end of today", whenever that is?

Even if it actually turned out to be a talk that almost all the parents would be totally happy with their kids hearing, from someone they themselves would deem reputable and trustworthy, the way the school have communicated it makes it seem super shady.

It's like if you got this:

"We want to inform you that we will be hosting a guest speaker tomorrow to talk about community and belonging. This speaker is a member of the faith community and will share their experiences to help foster understanding and respect among our pupils. If you prefer to withdraw your child from this 30-minute session, kindly let us know by the end of today."

Although it's only similar if you also happened to know that there had been many instances, over the past few years, of inappropriate religious speakers from extremist and fringe groups being invited into schools to persuade children of their point of view, without parents' knowledge, and that there were increasing numbers of children around the country joining these groups.

Sure, it's probably just a nice worship leader from the local gurdwara who's part of a regional multi-faith community project, or the friendly lady vicar from the C of E church down the road which runs fully-inclusive social groups, or someone like that, talking about nice appropriate things like helping your community and respecting others' beliefs. But if it were someone like that, why wouldn't they just say so?

The vagueness, combined with the lack of notice allowing parents to check out the intended speaker and talk, is bound to provoke concern that it's someone who needs to be slipped in under the radar, like a Scientologist or a fundamentalist religious-right Christian. (Or, at least, it would provoke those concerns if we had spent years hearing reports of dodgy people being invited to give extremist religious talks in inappropriate venues without adequate information being divulged in advance.)

I've done talks in (secondary) schools on Humanism — I sent my material ahead, and I fully expected the schools to inform parents of who I was, what organisation I was representing, and what my talk would cover, well in advance. I wouldn't want parents to have been given so little information or notice on which to make a decision about allowing their kids to attend.

My experience of schools is they tend not to be that well organised and send random last minute parents comms quite often.
I think its far more likely to be cock up than conspiracy.

I would make a formal complaint. Not enough information provided and not enough notice.

Also while you didn't withdraw 'in time' you did email and ask questions. Any decent person would realise this would likely mean you would withdraw if you hadn't had the answers and should have checked with you.

Absolutely complain. It's not necessarily about who th le speaker was it's how the school handled this

Empathy is a two way process; one that is learned from one's own experience of relationships; including those in the school setting.

An external source from a particular 'community' coming in to school - with a clear agenda ( the LGBTQ+ agenda) which involved 30 minutes of telling children to "be kind" doesn't sound like the best way to model or teach empathy in my view.

These are 8 year olds.

Listening to/reading stories is a well known way humans build empathy.

I don't see any issue with someone telling children about their own experiences. I understood why OP withdrew their child, but if it were me I would have responded by asking the child about the session and discussing their thoughts with them

This isnt enough time or infornatioo to make an informed decision . I would make a complaint on that basis

Given that there is plenty of documented evidence of children being told "you can't trust your parents, don't tell your parents anything until you have to. We (the non-DBS-checked rainbow community) will be your family now" - ie a perfect grooming setup - it's very much a safeguarding risk unless the school are very careful to vet in advance what is going to be said. Hiding it from parents until the last minute very much suggests that they didn't want any due diligence to take place so the very fact of doing it this way is a safeguarding concern because if there was nothing to be worried about they would have been open and honest and given the normal amount of notice.

This doesn't even make sense. Why doesn't it? What is the best way? What does them being 8 have to do with it unless you're assuming (based on no evidence) that the talk won't be age appropriate. What is the clear agenda? Based on actual evidence not your assumptions seen as you know nothing about what was said.

Very good point.

But primary schools have a huge input on “empathy”, caring for others, being kind, sharing anxieties, watching out for people who are feeling left out etc etc etc, believe me, I have been there, and done the assemblies, taught the RE lessons and led PSHE sessions. Schools also have a multitude of visitors who come in and speak to the children on similar topics, or as faith representatives, community support officers, fire safety officers, and as mentioned above, to inform and emphasise internet safety, keeping safe, road safety etc etc.

The difference is that schools DO NOT EMAIL and ask for permission or say a child can be withdrawn from assembly or class when these topics are discussed, or when those visitors are invited. Often the most you might get is a mention on the Newsletter saying someone is coming in or has been in to talk to Dolphin class. Internet safety is an exception as parental input is vital and usually sessions are run for parents as well as children.

So by emailing ( at such ridiculously short notice) and offering the opportunity to withdraw from the talk, the school is sending a message that this particular visitor is different. What they should have done is been far more specific about the visit, its purpose and the identity, in general terms , of the speaker. They didn’t do this which is remiss at best, or sneaky and deliberately deceitful at best. I think the OP was quite right to challenge them.

To bring in a speaker at this point of the term is a bit odd anyway as there is no time for further discussion or follow up in class about a topic that many children might have been confused by , so maybe a small red flag there with the timing.

I'm pretty certain that at age 8 I had no concept of gay or lesbian at all. Why would I? I didn't even know how babies were made then. Is this the experience of most posters, or was I living in a bygone age?

Really? I had two uncle's and my friend had. 2 mums

8 yo does not need talks about sexuality and gender identity. We go to Catholic school so this nonsense doesn't happen.

Yes, really. People's life experiences may vary. Do you think most 8 year olds understand the concept of gay and lesbian?

What the OP thinks is irrelevant: the suggestions that she may be hysterical even more so. Neither does this have anything to do with promoting an agenda - regardless of on which side of the debate you stand.

The School arranged an event that they felt warranted a parental notification. The content of this event was deemed to be sufficiently divisive/controversial/sensitive to warrant a non-participation option.

The real issue here is one of procedure - the lateness of the communication and the lack of qualifying information. They expected parents to make a snap decision on the basis of zero knowledge. Without emotion or judgment, that it the issue to focus on.

Stop being rude. Posters are entitled to different opinions without being told they are wrong.