Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

BMA to vote to 'disavow' the Cass review

212 replies

mzdemeanour · 16/07/2024 18:33

The governing body of the BMA is to hold a vote tomorrow (Wednesday July 17) to 'disavow' the Cass Review. Words fail me to be honest. Any doctors, particularly members of the BMA, able to explain or comment?

Article by Hannah Barnes in the Spectator www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2024/07/why-are-british-doctors-voting-to-reject-the-cass-report and thread on X/Twitter x.com/hannahsbee/status/1813252387504857241

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
Brainworm · 31/07/2024 19:52

I don't think Streeting will be swayed by this vote and I'm sure he'll be happy to review any critique the BMA produce. If it's as robust and thorough as Cass's review, and is evidence and not ideologically based, I expect consideration will be given to alternative findings. If it's ideologically driven and not evidence-based they will find they have wasted their time.

Ultimately, Cass simply called for gender services to be subject to the same standards as other areas of medicine. I'm not sure what the BMA can produce to convince people this shouldn't be the case.

Anecdotal evidence and opinions won't cut it. Neither will poor quality research (based on anecdotal evidence and opinion).

RedToothBrush · 31/07/2024 20:02

ButterflyHatched · 31/07/2024 19:22

The Cass review was doomed from the outset - the obfuscation of the selection and appointment process, the dismissal of evidence and the poor methodology was always going to bring it down eventually. The reveal that a nice cosy peerage was all lined up for its creator - only the small cost of enduring a few years of public grief and horror from those actually affected by it - was damning. Too many people cared and noticed.

It has unfortunately done immense, completely unwarranted damage to the young people its creators and supporters claim to want to protect, and will continue to do so for years to come - but there is now so much formal and unambiguous national and international criticism of its flaws on record that it has lost most of its value as a discussion-slaying thought-terminator.

I'm surprised by this announcement, however, and the courage it must have taken to make it in this political climate. I thought it would take years to get here.

Cass is about to become a nightmarish shackle for the 'GC' cause - while preying on the rightful fears of concerned parents and the cowardice of politicians, it actually highlighted the necessity to salvage the disastrous state of trans healthcare in this country. It also shone much-needed light on the insidious influence of Tufton Street and dark money in UK politics.

It will sink Streeting if he digs his heels in once an actual serious review has taken place. It's going to be fascinating to see how he responds.

Edited

Meanwhile in the real world, the insurers are taking notice...

fromorbit · 31/07/2024 20:03

If anything the BMA failing to find medical evidence to question Cass will strengthen Cass. I think the best thing for the BMA is to skip the whole boring evidence process and go straight to the courts to sort this out. I think the Good Law Project will be happy to represent them for a hefty fee.

fabricstash · 31/07/2024 20:28

Brainworm · 31/07/2024 19:52

I don't think Streeting will be swayed by this vote and I'm sure he'll be happy to review any critique the BMA produce. If it's as robust and thorough as Cass's review, and is evidence and not ideologically based, I expect consideration will be given to alternative findings. If it's ideologically driven and not evidence-based they will find they have wasted their time.

Ultimately, Cass simply called for gender services to be subject to the same standards as other areas of medicine. I'm not sure what the BMA can produce to convince people this shouldn't be the case.

Anecdotal evidence and opinions won't cut it. Neither will poor quality research (based on anecdotal evidence and opinion).

Exactly! The same standard as all other medical treatment

JanesLittleGirl · 31/07/2024 21:20

ButterflyHatched · 31/07/2024 19:22

The Cass review was doomed from the outset - the obfuscation of the selection and appointment process, the dismissal of evidence and the poor methodology was always going to bring it down eventually. The reveal that a nice cosy peerage was all lined up for its creator - only the small cost of enduring a few years of public grief and horror from those actually affected by it - was damning. Too many people cared and noticed.

It has unfortunately done immense, completely unwarranted damage to the young people its creators and supporters claim to want to protect, and will continue to do so for years to come - but there is now so much formal and unambiguous national and international criticism of its flaws on record that it has lost most of its value as a discussion-slaying thought-terminator.

I'm surprised by this announcement, however, and the courage it must have taken to make it in this political climate. I thought it would take years to get here.

Cass is about to become a nightmarish shackle for the 'GC' cause - while preying on the rightful fears of concerned parents and the cowardice of politicians, it actually highlighted the necessity to salvage the disastrous state of trans healthcare in this country. It also shone much-needed light on the insidious influence of Tufton Street and dark money in UK politics.

It will sink Streeting if he digs his heels in once an actual serious review has taken place. It's going to be fascinating to see how he responds.

Edited

There were incidents and accidents. There were hints and allegations.

The only things missing from your post are actual facts.

Faffertea · 31/07/2024 22:28

@TheTrickyWitch
I feel the same about deciding how best to write to them to express my frustration at this absolute batshittery.

I joined the BMA recently because of KBS actions as chair of GPC and to express an opinion on collective action.

Now I remember why I hadn’t joined now despite being a doctor for 16 years. Ditto leaving RCGP.

Hepwo · 31/07/2024 22:35

Is there a union that isn't totally batshit over this? Hilarious watching a labour government dealing with them for a change.

fromorbit · 01/08/2024 01:42

Good News.

SEEN in Health is organising a Review of The BMA's Review Of The Cass Review. Get involved if you are in the Health sector.

SEEN in Health is disappointed that the BMA is undertaking a Review of the independent Cass Review. As the leading representative body for doctors in the UK, the BMA has a special responsibility in upholding the ethics, standards and professionalism in the medical profession. 1/5

We are concerned this is an attempt to undermine the findings of the #CassReview- an independent, 4 year review by a leading Paediatrician. We expect the BMA to take contributions from the experience and expertise of its members, including those in SEEN in Health 2/5

Given the clinical, research and policy expertise of Dr Cass, we would wish to ensure that any such review can be objectively held to the highest standards and does not bring the Union or the profession into disrepute in seeking to critique a 4 year expert review. 3/5

Many of our members are also members of the BMA and we have expertise in Psychiatry, General Practice, Emergency Medicine, Ethics and Law, and in systematic review which would be invaluable in recognising the conflicting rights within the Equality Act 2010, 4/5

while also considering the rights and responsibilities of children and young people, parents and clinicians alike. We would like to contribute our experience and expertise to aid the BMA to reach an evidence based child centred conclusion. 5/5

https://x.com/SEENinHealth/status/1818721910521577532

x.com

https://x.com/SEENinHealth/status/1818721910521577532

IwantToRetire · 01/08/2024 01:52

SEEN in Health is organising a Review of The BMA's Review Of The Cass Review. Get involved if you are in the Health sector.

That's fantastic.

And a great inspiration to other SEENs.

Whoever started this type of organising has really started something.

Taking action right in the centre of each area of work.

Star StarStar Star Star Star Star Star StarStar Star Star Star Star Star StarStar Star Star Star Star

Sloejelly · 01/08/2024 11:27

fromorbit · 01/08/2024 01:42

Good News.

SEEN in Health is organising a Review of The BMA's Review Of The Cass Review. Get involved if you are in the Health sector.

SEEN in Health is disappointed that the BMA is undertaking a Review of the independent Cass Review. As the leading representative body for doctors in the UK, the BMA has a special responsibility in upholding the ethics, standards and professionalism in the medical profession. 1/5

We are concerned this is an attempt to undermine the findings of the #CassReview- an independent, 4 year review by a leading Paediatrician. We expect the BMA to take contributions from the experience and expertise of its members, including those in SEEN in Health 2/5

Given the clinical, research and policy expertise of Dr Cass, we would wish to ensure that any such review can be objectively held to the highest standards and does not bring the Union or the profession into disrepute in seeking to critique a 4 year expert review. 3/5

Many of our members are also members of the BMA and we have expertise in Psychiatry, General Practice, Emergency Medicine, Ethics and Law, and in systematic review which would be invaluable in recognising the conflicting rights within the Equality Act 2010, 4/5

while also considering the rights and responsibilities of children and young people, parents and clinicians alike. We would like to contribute our experience and expertise to aid the BMA to reach an evidence based child centred conclusion. 5/5

https://x.com/SEENinHealth/status/1818721910521577532

The Good Law Practice have condemned SEEN’s review as methodologically unsound and lacking evidence and once SEEN have written their review of the review of the review, GLP will demand a judicial review of the review of the review of the review… fundraising page opening soon.

MarieDeGournay · 01/08/2024 11:38

I find the word 'disavow' strangely olde-worldy, like they'll all dress up in funny outfits and go down on one knee and Withdraw Fealty and ritually burn a stethoscope or something. You'd expect something like 'critique' or 'analyse' or even 'refute' from a bunch of professionals, not 'disavow'.
I looked up the exact meaning of 'disavow', and the first definition that appears online is:
to say that you know nothing about something😂
DISAVOW | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary

SinnerBoy · 01/08/2024 15:30

I'm looking forward to the diplomatic language of the review of the review. How are they going to phrase,

Good God! These idiots don't understand the first thing about statistical analysis. Holy cow, there is no evidence for this ridiculous claim...

RedToothBrush · 01/08/2024 15:32

Sloejelly · 01/08/2024 11:27

The Good Law Practice have condemned SEEN’s review as methodologically unsound and lacking evidence and once SEEN have written their review of the review of the review, GLP will demand a judicial review of the review of the review of the review… fundraising page opening soon.

Show quote history

Is this real or a pisstake?

RedToothBrush · 01/08/2024 15:34

MarieDeGournay · 01/08/2024 11:38

I find the word 'disavow' strangely olde-worldy, like they'll all dress up in funny outfits and go down on one knee and Withdraw Fealty and ritually burn a stethoscope or something. You'd expect something like 'critique' or 'analyse' or even 'refute' from a bunch of professionals, not 'disavow'.
I looked up the exact meaning of 'disavow', and the first definition that appears online is:
to say that you know nothing about something😂
DISAVOW | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary

It sounds like someone religious disavowing a particular person or a church or something along those lines

lonelywater · 01/08/2024 15:47

ButterflyHatched · 31/07/2024 19:22

The Cass review was doomed from the outset - the obfuscation of the selection and appointment process, the dismissal of evidence and the poor methodology was always going to bring it down eventually. The reveal that a nice cosy peerage was all lined up for its creator - only the small cost of enduring a few years of public grief and horror from those actually affected by it - was damning. Too many people cared and noticed.

It has unfortunately done immense, completely unwarranted damage to the young people its creators and supporters claim to want to protect, and will continue to do so for years to come - but there is now so much formal and unambiguous national and international criticism of its flaws on record that it has lost most of its value as a discussion-slaying thought-terminator.

I'm surprised by this announcement, however, and the courage it must have taken to make it in this political climate. I thought it would take years to get here.

Cass is about to become a nightmarish shackle for the 'GC' cause - while preying on the rightful fears of concerned parents and the cowardice of politicians, it actually highlighted the necessity to salvage the disastrous state of trans healthcare in this country. It also shone much-needed light on the insidious influence of Tufton Street and dark money in UK politics.

It will sink Streeting if he digs his heels in once an actual serious review has taken place. It's going to be fascinating to see how he responds.

Edited

thing is, there is on the one hand reality (you know, stuff which is demonstrable and provable) and then there is stuff in you head you would like to be true. These things are not the same thing and merely saying stuff does nothing to meet the rigorous standard of proof which most people who aren't bonkers regard as acceptable.

MarieDeGournay · 01/08/2024 16:13

'SEEN in Health is organising a Review of The BMA's Review Of The Cass Review'
No need, lonelywater has already done it:

thing is, there is on the one hand reality (you know, stuff which is demonstrable and provable) and then there is stuff in you head you would like to be true. These things are not the same thing and merely saying stuff does nothing to meet the rigorous standard of proof which most people who aren't bonkers regard as acceptable.

Job done. End of. QED. The job's a good'un. 😄

Sloejelly · 01/08/2024 17:41

RedToothBrush · 01/08/2024 15:32

Is this real or a pisstake?

Show quote history

😂😂😂😂

It identifies as real. Though give GLP time…

RedToothBrush · 01/08/2024 18:04

Sloejelly · 01/08/2024 17:41

😂😂😂😂

It identifies as real. Though give GLP time…

Show quote history

Jeezus wept.

They are a parody now.

lcakethereforeIam · 01/08/2024 21:42

Ella Whelan in the Telegraph comprehensively demolishes the BMA

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/01/the-militant-bma-is-becoming-an-enemy-of-the-people/

https://archive.ph/ptOjh jump the paywall, it's not rocket surgery

Signalbox · 01/08/2024 21:48

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

AnonMedic · 02/08/2024 12:25

If anyone fancies asking Emma Runswick from the BMA a question she will be on Radio 4’s Any Questions tonight at 8pm

BMA to vote to 'disavow' the Cass review
Justme56 · 03/08/2024 14:47

https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-deposition-of-meredithe-mcnamara

Just adding this with some more background on the person who lead the Yale study. 2 weeks after the Yale study came out a disclaimer appeared stating these were the author’s own views and did not reflect the official views of Yale. Plus info on her ‘clinical experience’.

The Deposition of Meredithe McNamara

Meredithe McNamara is arguably the leading physician advocating for on-demand availability of medical “gender transition” for youth in the United States. An adolescent medicine physician and assistant professor of pediatrics at the Yale School of Medic...

https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-deposition-of-meredithe-mcnamara

SidewaysOtter · 03/08/2024 14:56

From the City Journal article:

“…one thing that I like to say is, ‘what does it cost you, to just affirm who [the child] say they are?”

No, halfwit. The question is what does it cost the CHILD?

Be-Kindery at its very worst.