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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Wes Streeting addresses puberty blockers decision -excellent response

356 replies

Fenlandia · 14/07/2024 12:05

https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1812435914473295927

x.com

https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1812435914473295927

OP posts:
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33
fromorbit · 15/07/2024 12:50

Guido's post outlines how crazy things are getting in Fox Killer world.

Remember though it is to our advantage he is the TRAs official lawyer. As long as they stick with him our cases are going to win way easier than if they got someone better. They are throwing money away on a guy who generally loses cases badly.

https://order-order.com/2024/07/15/jolyon-declares-himself-holder-of-key-to-moral-universe-in-trans-meltdown/

Jolyon Declares Himself 'Holder of Key to Moral Universe' in Trans Meltdown

Jolyon Maugham has been having quite the weekend - mainly consisting of a meltdown over Wes Streeting's decision to continue the ban on puberty blockers

https://order-order.com/2024/07/15/jolyon-declares-himself-holder-of-key-to-moral-universe-in-trans-meltdown

Whatthechicken · 15/07/2024 13:08

My concern is that they are going to give way on something to compensate for Cass and PB…will it be women or schools guidance? Stonewall are suspiciously quiet, I can’t see that they’ve commented on PBS at all in the last few days. They did retweet an amnesty international tweet about education though - whether that’s significant I’m not sure. twitter.com/amnestyuk/status/1810931569340637425?s=46&t=g7UjjEa2S2y82o-tbjyL_g

Citrusandginger · 15/07/2024 13:31

Well of course the most marginalised group eveeerrrr will draw parallels between their experiences and those of people of colour.

White male privilege, eh.

Floisme · 15/07/2024 13:49

Whatthechicken · 15/07/2024 13:08

My concern is that they are going to give way on something to compensate for Cass and PB…will it be women or schools guidance? Stonewall are suspiciously quiet, I can’t see that they’ve commented on PBS at all in the last few days. They did retweet an amnesty international tweet about education though - whether that’s significant I’m not sure. twitter.com/amnestyuk/status/1810931569340637425?s=46&t=g7UjjEa2S2y82o-tbjyL_g

I share this concern. I'm very pleased that Wes Streeting seems to have persuaded his Cabinet colleagues that they don't want to go down in history as the government that ignored the Cass report, but I'm not convinced yet whether it's any more significant than that.

Implementing Cass was a Labour manifesto pledge, and so was GRA 'simplification'. Starmer also insisted into the election that clarifying the Equality Act wasn't necessary. So welcome as this news is, it doesn't make me any more optimistic about future battles. Indeed, if Starmer does view this whole issue as as a trading exercise then, if anything, I'm more apprehensive.

But on a positive note, some of the Twix nutjobs have hopefully done us all a favour this weekend.

NoWordForFluffy · 15/07/2024 13:56

RedToothBrush · 14/07/2024 23:12

He can't answer the question because of how it's now agreed the phrase is deeply offensive and actively harmful.

So he's avoidant. Avoidant lawyers are telling you something if you pay attention.

This is very true. If I avoid a question / issue in my day job, I'm very much telling you something!

fromorbit · 15/07/2024 13:57

JKR on the Nandy interview.

J.K. Rowling
38m
The times they are a-changin’

RedToothBrush · 15/07/2024 14:16

Whatthechicken · 15/07/2024 11:27

Beep beep ferret.

RedToothBrush · 15/07/2024 14:18

fromorbit · 15/07/2024 12:50

Guido's post outlines how crazy things are getting in Fox Killer world.

Remember though it is to our advantage he is the TRAs official lawyer. As long as they stick with him our cases are going to win way easier than if they got someone better. They are throwing money away on a guy who generally loses cases badly.

https://order-order.com/2024/07/15/jolyon-declares-himself-holder-of-key-to-moral-universe-in-trans-meltdown/

Why do they all have God Complexes?

What's the parallel with cults and cult leaders again?

RedToothBrush · 15/07/2024 14:20

fromorbit · 15/07/2024 12:22

With Nandy it takes time to step back from the madness. Look where Streeting started and where he is now. Lots of us were trying to be kind once.

Nandy is starting to peak. When the TRAs turn on her it will be another step.

Streeting unfollowing the Fox Killer is beautiful. That is not all though.

Dr Natacha Kennedy
I said yesterday that, if wes streeting
could not answer these questions he was not fit to be health secretary.

Now he has not only unfollowed Jo but unfollowed me (a qualified and published academic expert with peer-reviewed publications in this area) as well.

They tried to make Streeting lose his seat, failed, sent him more abuse and get upset when he reacts calmly.

Joshua Newbury, new Labour MP for Cannock Chase, just elected for first time, just published a thread on puberty blockers then deleted it. It was fairly mild saying he was concerned with ban, but wanted to follow evidence and discussing Cass Report. A TRA noticed this and is now claiming he was forced to take it down. They screencaped the thread here.
https://x.com/BadWritingTakes/status/1812628553311387656

More likely he was upset by the TRAs all sending over top threats to Streeting and thought wait lets not get involved in this as a starting MP.

Bahahaha

Bahahahgagagaggagahhahhahagaa.

I am CRYING.

They literally aren't getting any attention anymore and the toys go straight out the pram.

It's so funny.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 15/07/2024 14:25

Labour have noticed (at last!) that voters really do care about children. Women not so much.

But there are legal cases coming along that will lift the lid a little higher. The nurses' discrimination case - one "trans" individual making working life hell for 20+ women with their employer's blessing - knocks "why do crazy women worry about such a teeny number of harmless people" flying. The govt may hope to do GRA in exchange for making kids safer and keep everyone happy but it's not going to be an easy ride. We're not the nutters here.

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/07/2024 14:27

"So Labour is simultaneously going to stop conversion therapy - promised in the King's Speech - and forcibly detransition under 18s - promised by Wes Streeting? How does that cohere as a policy platform?"

Even Jolyon Maugham must be aware that social transition and 'gender identity' do not solely depend on blockers, drugs and surgery?

That so many supposedly intelligent people cannot see the blind spots in their rationale - surely has to be suggestive of personal investment in the issue - maybe through having themselves supported the medicalisation of personal family members?

WarriorN · 15/07/2024 14:32

Oooh I've just had a flash back to LOJ interviewing Nandy as "up and coming and one to watch" and fawning all over her. He's been rather quiet.

(It was all we must heal these divisions then too ironically!)

WarriorN · 15/07/2024 14:35

Funnily enough he's just all about Gaza now and gone right off Nandy for other reasons.

DodoPatrol · 15/07/2024 14:39

fromorbit · 15/07/2024 12:22

With Nandy it takes time to step back from the madness. Look where Streeting started and where he is now. Lots of us were trying to be kind once.

Nandy is starting to peak. When the TRAs turn on her it will be another step.

Streeting unfollowing the Fox Killer is beautiful. That is not all though.

Dr Natacha Kennedy
I said yesterday that, if wes streeting
could not answer these questions he was not fit to be health secretary.

Now he has not only unfollowed Jo but unfollowed me (a qualified and published academic expert with peer-reviewed publications in this area) as well.

They tried to make Streeting lose his seat, failed, sent him more abuse and get upset when he reacts calmly.

Joshua Newbury, new Labour MP for Cannock Chase, just elected for first time, just published a thread on puberty blockers then deleted it. It was fairly mild saying he was concerned with ban, but wanted to follow evidence and discussing Cass Report. A TRA noticed this and is now claiming he was forced to take it down. They screencaped the thread here.
https://x.com/BadWritingTakes/status/1812628553311387656

More likely he was upset by the TRAs all sending over top threats to Streeting and thought wait lets not get involved in this as a starting MP.

Is it Natacha Kennedy who publishes in both his'n'hers names? Sometimes collaborating on the same paper?

ShillingForLabour · 15/07/2024 14:40

DodoPatrol · 15/07/2024 14:39

Is it Natacha Kennedy who publishes in both his'n'hers names? Sometimes collaborating on the same paper?

A doctor of doctoring.

Windymoore · 15/07/2024 14:45

RedToothBrush · 15/07/2024 14:16

Beep beep ferret.

Bugger me!! Lisa Nandy backing Cass Report?!?!? Beep Beep ferret indeed!! Also, am I reaching by thinking her "young people going through a difficult time in Thier lives" could be taken as a phase of exploration as vast majority desist?!( Yes,I know I know, that's probably not what she meant to say,but who knows in this topsy turvey world?)

howonearthdidwegethere · 15/07/2024 14:49

I bet Wes is getting loads of behind the scenes grief and pressure from the LGBT crew inside Labour. In case anyone wants to send him a card to encourage him to hold the line...

Department of Health and Social Care
39 Victoria Street, London SW1H 0EU

Floisme · 15/07/2024 14:52

I'm sorry to be the party pooper but, I've had 12 hours to think about this and, now that my initial delight has faded, what I'm taking from it is basically that the government decided to stick to one of their manifesto pledges: to implement the Cass review.

I think they would have been insane to lift that ban. Totally and utterly insane.

Ok it's comforting that they're not totally insane but I don't understand the confidence that this will someone change their plans for GRA changes - also a manifesto pledge - or that it's now going to be harder for them to implement them. Given their majority and the support of other left of centre parties, once it's in the King's Speech then, as far as I can see, it's game over.

But please do see if you can persuade me otherwise.

WarriorN · 15/07/2024 15:04

Flo, nothing will change for me until I know what they've planned for education.

PBS are the no brainer. As you say, they'd be stupid not to ban them; the world is watching now.

The ideology can remain

RedToothBrush · 15/07/2024 15:25

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/07/2024 14:27

"So Labour is simultaneously going to stop conversion therapy - promised in the King's Speech - and forcibly detransition under 18s - promised by Wes Streeting? How does that cohere as a policy platform?"

Even Jolyon Maugham must be aware that social transition and 'gender identity' do not solely depend on blockers, drugs and surgery?

That so many supposedly intelligent people cannot see the blind spots in their rationale - surely has to be suggestive of personal investment in the issue - maybe through having themselves supported the medicalisation of personal family members?

Edited

I thought the problem was more that they were going to make it impossible to challenge 'transing gay kids' with legalised conversion therapy whilst simultaneously implementing the Cass Review.

I'm glad Maugham sees there is incoherence and impossible position with the proposed conversion therapy bill and the Cass Review.

If he can see the issue then others will also start to see the problem.

RedToothBrush · 15/07/2024 15:26

Floisme · 15/07/2024 14:52

I'm sorry to be the party pooper but, I've had 12 hours to think about this and, now that my initial delight has faded, what I'm taking from it is basically that the government decided to stick to one of their manifesto pledges: to implement the Cass review.

I think they would have been insane to lift that ban. Totally and utterly insane.

Ok it's comforting that they're not totally insane but I don't understand the confidence that this will someone change their plans for GRA changes - also a manifesto pledge - or that it's now going to be harder for them to implement them. Given their majority and the support of other left of centre parties, once it's in the King's Speech then, as far as I can see, it's game over.

But please do see if you can persuade me otherwise.

Time. Time is the biggest thing.

Keep writing. Things will work out in the wash if we have time.

RoyalCorgi · 15/07/2024 15:27

Ok it's comforting that they're not totally insane but I don't understand the confidence that this will someone change their plans for GRA changes - also a manifesto pledge - or that it's now going to be harder for them to implement them. Given their majority and the support of other left of centre parties, once it's in the King's Speech then, as far as I can see, it's game over.

To me, for the Labour government to be not totally insane is a big victory. My expectation was that they would be totally fruit loop, as they have been for the past several years, so this is major progress.

I await with interest their plans for the GRA changes. Best possible outcome is that the response to their puberty blockers enlightens them to how utterly fucking batshit trans activists are, and makes them rethink the GRA changes.

But even if they plough ahead, I think they will run into trouble. Enough of us - including people on their own back benches - are angry enough about it that it will make life difficult for them if they do press ahead. So they might decide to put it off rather than deal with the backlash.

fromorbit · 15/07/2024 15:30

Floisme · 15/07/2024 14:52

I'm sorry to be the party pooper but, I've had 12 hours to think about this and, now that my initial delight has faded, what I'm taking from it is basically that the government decided to stick to one of their manifesto pledges: to implement the Cass review.

I think they would have been insane to lift that ban. Totally and utterly insane.

Ok it's comforting that they're not totally insane but I don't understand the confidence that this will someone change their plans for GRA changes - also a manifesto pledge - or that it's now going to be harder for them to implement them. Given their majority and the support of other left of centre parties, once it's in the King's Speech then, as far as I can see, it's game over.

But please do see if you can persuade me otherwise.

This is what the manifesto said:;
Delivering opportunities for all means that everyone should be treated with respect and dignity. Labour will protect LGBT+ and disabled people by making all existing strands of hate crime an aggravated offence. So-called conversion therapy is abuse – there is no other word for it – so Labour will finally deliver a full trans-inclusive ban on conversion practices, while protecting the freedom for people to explore their sexual orientation and gender identity. We will also modernise, simplify, and reform the intrusive and outdated gender recognition law to a new process. We will remove indignities for trans people who deserve recognition and acceptance; whilst retaining the need for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a specialist doctor, enabling access to the healthcare pathway. Labour is proud of our Equality Act and the rights and protections it affords women; we will continue to support the implementation of its single-sex exceptions.

This besides implementing Cass Report.

The thing is this is contradictory. The Cass Report makes clear the need for exploratory therapy. That contradicts the Conversion therapy ban the TRAs would like, UNLESS the ban is worded to allow it. In which case the only thing it will stop is probably religious zealots which we are not worried about. We need to see the draft. However after this drama over puberty blockers does anyone think Streeting will pass a bill which bans actual useful therapy because of TRA feelings. Why would he? The evidence is on our side.

If they update the gender recognition law, BUT also include single sex provisions and make it clear that means biological sex then the TRAs are not getting what they want at all. It gives other weapons to fight back. So yes making GRC easier has issues, but there may be gains too.

Really it depends what the bills say and how they are worded. We fight those battles when they come.

Do not underestimate the ground we are gaining.

Winning on puberty blockers destroys the trans kids myth - which then undermines a lot of the other stuff longterm.

That is why the TRA are so desperate to keep them just as they keep pushing on sports another area where the public are in deep opposition. They can't afford to lose on anything. They cannot afford to have ANY open debate or discussion. That is what any new bills will bring.

So yes we are going to be fighting other battles and we might lose some. Yet think about it we have come a long way from 2018 and we are getting stronger all the time.

If Labour passes a few terrible laws then they OWN those laws. Remember "trans" criminals exist and will exploit the loopholes. All it takes is to pass bad laws then someone to take advantage and then you have Isla all over again. This time there are plenty of people to point out any abuses that result.

Shortshriftandlethal · 15/07/2024 15:54

At some point the contradiction in banning puberty blockers but continuing to allow gender identity to be taught as fact in schools, along with continuing to validate the social transition of children in schools.......will become much more obvious.

If you embrace the 'trans child' as a concept then you also have to give access to puberty blockers and surgery...or else you are consigning trans kids to a life of misery and the 'wrong puberty'.

WarriorN · 15/07/2024 15:58

We are further on, much further.

And the new eara of "less heat more light we want to debate" does mean we can keep pointing out the cognitive dissonance and expect to be heard.

Whether they understand or act accord remains to be seen.

I'm agog at the fox killer's rising lunacy and tantrums.

LOJ is sticking to Gaza and nothing else. Which is interesting. 🧐 taking a new side of history?