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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Single sex spaces aren’t just about safety – they are about community

67 replies

IwantToRetire · 13/07/2024 01:31

The origins of this debate are difficult to trace, but they start somewhere around the late 2010s following the government’s public consultation into reforming the Gender Recognition Act of 2004. Led by then equalities minister, Penny Mordaunt, the consultation sought to understand public sentiment around simplifying the process to allow individuals to legally change their gender. ‘Trans women are women and trans men are men,’ Mordaunt famously told parliament during a debate on the topic in 2018.

Since then, much of the conversation has centred on the ideological divisions between trans-rights campaigners who want access to single-sex spaces (including women’s toilets, women’s sports, and women-only boards and panels), and women’s rights activists who want to protect them. For the latter group, the issue of protecting women from violence – male violence in particular – has been paramount.

These places should not be used solely as hideaways from the world, in which victimised women take shelter, but rather as places to cultivate and perpetuate female solidarity, camaraderie, and joy.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-will-labour-do-about-women-only-spaces

Please note! these are just a few paragraphs I have picked out. And may not be what others would take from the whole article.

Text is also available at https://archive.ph/hBbPz

What will Labour do about women-only spaces?

Labour’s plan for government is becoming clear. Yet one policy issue remains conspicuously uncertain: the issue of women-only spaces

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-will-labour-do-about-women-only-spaces

OP posts:
ifIwerenotanandroid · 13/07/2024 13:33

Hoosemover · 13/07/2024 13:10

You think she gets it than the last couple of paragraphs she totally turns it round to the conclusion that we should allow trans woman into women’s spaces.

Really? These are the last two paragraphs:

'As the new Labour government solidifies their plans for dealing with the issue of women-only spaces, they may feel pressured to choose between one of two options. To either infiltrate women-only spaces or protect them. But another option exists in which the integrity of these spaces is not only maintained but expanded, not only for biological women, but transwomen, too. There is room for women-only spaces and for transwomen-only spaces.

For too long, the goal of single-sex spaces has been reduced to the provision of safety. But this approach has robbed both transwomen and biological women of something just as important: community.' (my bold)

I read it as saying we need third spaces, i.e. transwomen-only spaces, & that it's wrong to see the question as having only two possible answers, either to keep TW out (with nothing else for them specifically) or to allow them into women's facilities which then are no longer single-sex. It seems to me a sensible & compassionate way of looking at the issue, & I agree with PP that adding even one male to an exclusively female group changes it immediately. That's been my experience in a variety of settings.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 13/07/2024 13:41

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 13/07/2024 13:25

@Hoosemover no I'm saying that the last couple of paragraphs don't make it clear. It would be really easy to turn it around and say because its not about safety transwomen being women (they're not) should have the right to join in with these bonding and joyous sessions.

She does at least say, earlier in the article, 'But safety should be the guaranteed starting point, not the goal.' I don't quite see how the goal is that women should share garlic-peeling tips etc. Certain things flow naturally from being in the safety of an all-female group, e.g. being able to talk openly about things, or to be rude about men, or not to think about men at all. Her examples are a bit odd, though.

What I'm trying to say is: give women the all-female, single sex spaces they need & want & enjoy - & then let them get on with it.

menopausalmare · 13/07/2024 13:42

The only positive about making toilets unisex cubicles is there would be no more queuing for the ladies but the design would need to be fully enclosed with decent ventilation in each.

Floisme · 13/07/2024 14:21

Apologies if I sounded negative. I don't think the article is all bad.

The part I probably found most exasperating was the suggestion of third spaces as if it were a viable solution that no-one had thought of before. I'm afraid it cemented my initial view that most FWR posters know more about this issue than the writer does.

But hey, maybe I should be more tolerant - we were all new to this once.

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 13/07/2024 14:29

Mainly it just seems ridiculous to waffle on about female "joy" (in the loos? Really?!) when she's not made any mention of privacy and dignity, which for me would come WAY ahead of any such considerations (and behind safety only). I want my daughter to be able to get changed for sports/swimming or try on clothes without having to see any 🍆, without being ogled by men/boys while undressing, and without any phones coming under the curtain. I don't give a monkey's whether she experiences "joy" at the same time, I mean it'd be nice but ultimately, a changing room is just a changing room... but privacy and dignity should be a minimum expectation!

And I agree the last paragraph is unclear - she does seem to mean she supports third spaces, but doesn't actually express it very well...

rainbowbee · 13/07/2024 14:31

menopausalmare · 13/07/2024 13:42

The only positive about making toilets unisex cubicles is there would be no more queuing for the ladies but the design would need to be fully enclosed with decent ventilation in each.

My gym has toilets like this. They are regularly cleaned. But still, some men piss all over them.

Hoosemover · 13/07/2024 14:37

ifIwerenotanandroid · 13/07/2024 13:33

Really? These are the last two paragraphs:

'As the new Labour government solidifies their plans for dealing with the issue of women-only spaces, they may feel pressured to choose between one of two options. To either infiltrate women-only spaces or protect them. But another option exists in which the integrity of these spaces is not only maintained but expanded, not only for biological women, but transwomen, too. There is room for women-only spaces and for transwomen-only spaces.

For too long, the goal of single-sex spaces has been reduced to the provision of safety. But this approach has robbed both transwomen and biological women of something just as important: community.' (my bold)

I read it as saying we need third spaces, i.e. transwomen-only spaces, & that it's wrong to see the question as having only two possible answers, either to keep TW out (with nothing else for them specifically) or to allow them into women's facilities which then are no longer single-sex. It seems to me a sensible & compassionate way of looking at the issue, & I agree with PP that adding even one male to an exclusively female group changes it immediately. That's been my experience in a variety of settings.

Edited

It a bit ambiguous… I read it as her wanting infiltrate women spaces

it is rubbish what every way you interpret because trans women want in women space and we don’t want them there

quantumbutterfly · 13/07/2024 14:53

...and the transmen get a space too for all their blokey bonding?

What will they write on the doors?

Will there be provision for the 70+(?) other genderties to have their own space?

TrainedByCats · 13/07/2024 15:01

'As the new Labour government solidifies their plans for dealing with the issue of women-only spaces, they may feel pressured to choose between one of two options. To either infiltrate women-only spaces or protect them. But another option exists in which the integrity of these spaces is not only maintained but expanded, not only for biological women, but transwomen, too. There is room for women-only spaces and for transwomen-only spaces.

For too long, the goal of single-sex spaces has been reduced to the provision of safety. But this approach has robbed both transwomen and biological women of something just as important: community.' (my bold)

Transwomen can create their own spaces (I believe they have them already in some cases) and women will happily leave them to those spaces.

but I can’t help noticing it’s still all about the males 🙄

quantumbutterfly · 13/07/2024 15:04

TrainedByCats · 13/07/2024 15:01

'As the new Labour government solidifies their plans for dealing with the issue of women-only spaces, they may feel pressured to choose between one of two options. To either infiltrate women-only spaces or protect them. But another option exists in which the integrity of these spaces is not only maintained but expanded, not only for biological women, but transwomen, too. There is room for women-only spaces and for transwomen-only spaces.

For too long, the goal of single-sex spaces has been reduced to the provision of safety. But this approach has robbed both transwomen and biological women of something just as important: community.' (my bold)

Transwomen can create their own spaces (I believe they have them already in some cases) and women will happily leave them to those spaces.

but I can’t help noticing it’s still all about the males 🙄

Indeed.

GrumpyPanda · 13/07/2024 15:07

menopausalmare · 13/07/2024 13:42

The only positive about making toilets unisex cubicles is there would be no more queuing for the ladies but the design would need to be fully enclosed with decent ventilation in each.

You can eliminate queues by passing proper American-style potty parity legislation requiring equal wait-times and hence mandating a higher space provision (from 1:2 to 1:4) in favour of women.

With unisex what you'll get is women still queuing up but (in larger facilities) men just barging ahead obliviously.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 13/07/2024 15:17

I can only speak for myself. But in my opinion this author has got it entirely the wrong way round when she says we need female only spaces for "joy".

No. We need it for the opposite. When we are feeling pain, grief, fear. We need a space away from leering or curious male eyes.

Joy might be a bit of an OTT way of putting it, but I don't think it's just about pain, grief and fear either. Communities like my guild feel different without men there. Women who have grown up in a society where men are considered more important (i.e. pretty much all women) behave and interact a bit differently when they are in a group which excludes men, especially when they are doing things which would probably be looked down or not valued by men.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 13/07/2024 16:25

Third spaces won't work. They are outing and othering. They are transphobic because they don't recognise transwomen are women. Can anyone seriously imagine IW would use a space for a transwoman. This is the person who claimed to have completed their transition and are now a cis female and offered to show their cervix on tv.

Women need spaces away from male born people and male socialisation for safety, privacy and dignity not for camaraderie.

NewtGuineaPig · 13/07/2024 17:53

menopausalmare · 13/07/2024 13:42

The only positive about making toilets unisex cubicles is there would be no more queuing for the ladies but the design would need to be fully enclosed with decent ventilation in each.

I was in unisex toilets like this in a restaurant today. Pretty nice toilets but when I came out of my cubicle there was a man in the cubicle next to mine, no attempt to have the door closed while he used the toilet.

IwantToRetire · 13/07/2024 17:59

Like others I liked parts, but then thought it ended up a bit weak. Or that she didn't feel able to raise more fundamental issues. ie that most trans women seem determined to be able to use facilities that are clearly meant to be for biological women. It is almost the end goal.

But as PP pointed out she is from a right wing think tank, and I wonder if she was just sort of given the brief because she is a woman and it is just a personal reflection. if you look at her biography of their web site https://cps.org.uk/our-team/tanika-dsouza/ she doesn't seem to have necessarily had a feminist take on anything.

I wonder if we should do a non threatening response by emailing or something and in addition to the "joy" there is ... (cant find anyway of contacting her). Because we need the right to challenge Labour.

She is getting absolutely slated on the Spectator facebook page. Trans allies outraged that such an ignorant woman had been allowed to write an article about something she knows nothing about, etc.!
https://www.facebook.com/Spectator1828/posts/pfbid0bZ4wZTN8mmxdHgxS53nTAwnSdsrr5JW3hBmS8TQRQaTPeHGxESENTL68daLP82p3l

Although Julie Burchill's article is getting much the same response. https://www.facebook.com/Spectator1828/posts/pfbid02HpRBTJcm2iMfYyi3soYShhqpP1L9VbM6pVCN8BZoGdv2i6YZU4cTjbdrkgwTUgzHl

Tanika D'Souza - The Centre for Policy Studies

Tanika D’Souza is a Researcher at the Centre for Policy Studies. She holds a BSc in Psychology from the University of Melbourne and an MA in Journalism from Columbia University in the City of New York. Prior to joining the CPS, Tanika worked as an Asso...

https://cps.org.uk/our-team/tanika-dsouza

OP posts:
JoandArcFeminist · 13/07/2024 18:11

yvcdrjb · 13/07/2024 11:34

Me neither. We don't have wet t shirt competitions or pillow fights in there either.

Ive not aren't hat comparison yet!

I see it in relation to how TIMs use things they think happen, and how those men view the idea of giving out a tampon/pad is worth discussion... But am I really alone in having been on both sides of that interaction a few times in my life?

It's not often, sure, and I agree how certain men 'use' it is gross but I don't think it's the same as a wet t-shirt competition 😆

JoandArcFeminist · 13/07/2024 18:15

That last paragraph was whiplash!! Fence sitting nonsense imo.

Yeah some of it is a bit like... Women's magazine patronising phrasing (complimenting dresses fml get over it 😆)

But I do like bringing up that women only whatever is great.

I've been on a few women only training/workshops and it's been so so so good, and we all at the end have said how nice it was to not have men about for that.

And now it's impossible to advertise for something similar, unless you want to risk a bloke coming! (Funnily a recent thing I went to which is tacitly 'trans-inclusive' has no blokes joining bcos it's not very trendy haha)

Keeptoiletssafe · 13/07/2024 18:35

‘For too long, the goal of single-sex spaces has been reduced to the provision of safety. But this approach has robbed both transwomen and biological women of something just as important: community.’

NO - safety is more important than a fleeting sense of ‘community’.

Safety is also more important than ‘privacy and dignity’ which are the new buzz words that have over-riden health and safety.

Even the new government toilets designs have fallen foul of it.

Because, unlike the author, I am focused on safety - and that’s for everyone. I wrote into the government consultation, and then analysed all the reports and results that were published because they didn’t mention my concerns in the analysis. I believe they ignored at least one charity too.

Unlike the author, I came to a very different conclusion because it’s not difficult if you put the time in - there is a direct link to show the influence of ‘trans’ design and how it practically will affect everyone at their most vulnerable - if they are seriously ill or if they are being attacked. And because I have done the research, I know it is unfortunately it is much more common than most people realise. I want safety for everyone.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 13/07/2024 18:46

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 13/07/2024 16:25

Third spaces won't work. They are outing and othering. They are transphobic because they don't recognise transwomen are women. Can anyone seriously imagine IW would use a space for a transwoman. This is the person who claimed to have completed their transition and are now a cis female and offered to show their cervix on tv.

Women need spaces away from male born people and male socialisation for safety, privacy and dignity not for camaraderie.

If third spaces are outing, then make the third space an 'anyone but cis men' space (not my choice of terminology but y'know) & then trans people of any gender plus cis female allies can use it. To make the concept more acceptable, maybe market it as 'women plus'. The first & second spaces stay as they are, single sex.

I really think at this point it's up to trans people/allies to tell us what's acceptable given that women's single sex spaces will be unavailable to them. Start the discussion there & find a workable solution.

We need to take the removal of women's single sex spaces & facilities out of the equation, because we all know that the way to get the greatest good for the greatest number of people is to have adequate facilities for women who can't use/don't want mixed sex facilities. We need to provide for the majority & then add in for the minority. The alternative is to take away provision for the majority so that a minority get what they want: that would result in many women being unable to participate fully in society, & I hope everyone would agree that that's unacceptable.

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 13/07/2024 18:49

I read that last paragraph very differently- that we need to reframe it from being a place of safety from men which won't allow trans identifying men in, and see it as a community that can be extended and enriched by including transwomen.

I did wonder whether the clunkiness came from trying to use TRA language to frame a woman centred argument. Female joy sounds much like trans joy- maybe the hope was it would be respected as being as important as queer joy and trans joy?

IwantToRetire · 13/07/2024 18:53

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 13/07/2024 18:49

I read that last paragraph very differently- that we need to reframe it from being a place of safety from men which won't allow trans identifying men in, and see it as a community that can be extended and enriched by including transwomen.

I did wonder whether the clunkiness came from trying to use TRA language to frame a woman centred argument. Female joy sounds much like trans joy- maybe the hope was it would be respected as being as important as queer joy and trans joy?

Quote:

But another option exists in which the integrity of these spaces is not only maintained but expanded, not only for biological women, but transwomen, too. There is room for women-only spaces and for transwomen-only spaces.

And the problem with this as many PPs have already said is that trans women dont wont TW only spaces. The want, insist they have a right to be in women only spaces.

OP posts:
DeanElderberry · 13/07/2024 19:57

JoandArcFeminist · 13/07/2024 18:11

Ive not aren't hat comparison yet!

I see it in relation to how TIMs use things they think happen, and how those men view the idea of giving out a tampon/pad is worth discussion... But am I really alone in having been on both sides of that interaction a few times in my life?

It's not often, sure, and I agree how certain men 'use' it is gross but I don't think it's the same as a wet t-shirt competition 😆

I can't answer for anyone else, but the only time I asked for a tampon was when I was 14, new to the whole thing and not used to always being kitted up, and I asked a girl I had been in the same form with for nearly three years.

I have never offered sanpro to anyone, friend. acquaintance, or stranger.

And feel really strongly that no woman should ever use a tampon if they don't know exactly when and where it came out of the manufacturer's seal, it is much too risky.

Sugarsnapper · 13/07/2024 20:18

Sometimes I meet up with all my old women friends. We go back a long way. We can talk about anything and support each other without judgement. If someone brought their husband along because he doesn’t have any friends himself and wants to be friends with us it would totally change the dynamic. We would be polite and inclusive but it would kill the meet up for the majority. And this is the case for a transwoman in a woman’s single sex space. It kills it.

Keeptoiletssafe · 13/07/2024 21:07

Some research for the Spectator below. I think the author is American which maybe relevant because traditionally toilets/restrooms over there are different.

Btw these toilet designs are already rubber-stamped and are from this October. So there’s no ambiguity you elude to in the article unless Labour stop them going ahead.

It’s a long post but it can be seen that the people commissioned to look at UK toilet design for people with long term health conditions, recommended enclosed design. This is dangerous for many with long term health conditions. Why did they recommended it? The ‘evidence’ was from two American designers who were promoting inclusive toilet design supported by transactivists. I think this maybe where the ‘community’ idea originates from? It certainly fits in with the articles in America I have read. But this type of design hasn’t been health and safety assessed and doesn’t translate to a standard design in the U.K. or something that will be retrofitted into a very different area.

Document T details the toilet designs that will come in to force in October 2024 in the UK. The toilet designs are dangerous for everyone but in particular, disabled people, medically vulnerable, women and girls.

There are 4 toilet designs:

• A Ambulant universal - full height door and full height floor to ceiling partitions

• B Universal - full height door and full height floor to ceiling partitions

• C Single sex ambulant - profile diagram shows full height door and no door gaps, no partition gaps

• D Single sex - no profile diagram, no mention of door or partition heights, AND can be designed as Type A or B ie fully enclosed for single sex use

None of the designs specify a door gap at the bottom of the door or at the top.

Why do gaps matter?

Because toilet door gaps save lives.

If you collapse, being able to survive or if you suffer long-term damage, will be down to whether someone notices and rescues you.

If you’re out and about or at work and feel nauseous/ill you are likely to head to the toilet.
There are around 100,000 hospital admissions due to heart attacks in this country, equating to one every five minutes. It is estimated there are 400,000 people in the U.K. with undiagnosed cardiac problems.
There are also around 100,000 strokes in this country, equating to one every five minutes. There are known medical reasons for a disproportionally high frequency of cardiac arrests and strokes while an individual is in the toilet.
Around 1% of people in this country have epilepsy and around 80 people are diagnosed with epilepsy each day. To put it into perspective there are around 9 children with epilepsy in an average secondary school.
There are many other conditions that lead to collapse where you need to be noticed and accessed quickly eg. diabetes.

A recent government report noted 80% of the thousands of incidents of drink spiking happen in public places, usually in bars and clubs, mainly to women, average age 26.

Prevention of sexual assaults
In any space that becomes private, more offences are likely to take place. In Parliament it was discussed that there was at least 1 rape inside a school premises each day (over 600 in a 3 year period). The data, collected by the BBC, mentions an example occurring in a private cupboard. This was in 2015, before many schools decided to change their toilet designs to fully enclosed and mixed sex. There is no available data on these new toilet designs but, teachers and pupils are reporting many problems with drug dealing, dirt and sex. The toilet door gaps are vital for safeguarding to help prevent activities that stop pupils, especially girls, going to the toilet. There are known problems of girls avoiding toilets and getting urinary infections or missing school. This legislation does not affect schools but they have been at the ‘coalface’ of new experimental toilet designs so it a good demonstration of what goes wrong.

A quick internet search brings up the disproportionate number of sexual assaults and rapes that happen to able bodied and disabled women and girls in disabled toilets in this country which are obviously mixed sex and fully enclosed toilets, often in very public places such as busy train stations and shopping centres.

More problems with toilets with enclosed full height doors are:

  • Ventilation is decreased so there’s a higher risk of disease spread.
  • Evacuation times are greatly increased as a responder can’t tell quickly if stalls are occupied.
  • Hygiene is compromised as a mop can’t go underneath the doors nor floor be washed down. It is awkward to enter the cubicle with a mop and detritus ends up on the partition corners.
  • Doors are more likely to get stuck/warped and the cubicle out of action.
  • People are more likely to engage in illegal activities (drugs) or self harm if they are in a private space.
  • Occupants can’t see if anyone is lying in wait outside their cubicle if they are feeling vulnerable, so no opportunity to call for help/ prevent an attack by using their phone. This is particularly important as the new designs allow the door to be opened from the outside.

Why have toilet cubicle door gaps disappeared from the new public toilet designs?

There are many articles and videos on why we have gaps under and over toilet doors - so it is worrying these have been ignored. The initial government consultation that was publicised several years ago led to Stonewall coordinating a response and very effectively dominating the results. There is nothing wrong with this lobbying but the policy goals that were created from the initial consultation concentrated on mixed sex ‘universal’ toilets and privacy because of toilets being mixed sex.

ARUP was appointed by the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities to carry out research into the toilet requirements of the population of England in the built environment, in particular disabled people and people with long-term health conditions. The government also did a second consultation. I wrote a lengthy response to the second consultation, detailing the statistics and need for door gaps but none of these issues were mentioned on published consultation results.

In the ARUP document, the justification (evidence and literature) for fully enclosed toilets comes from two American sources on p.129 of the report. I have spent time analysing these sources as so much seems to depend on them. These are a restroom design for a Minnesota high school and an American paper from Joel Sanders and Susan Stryker. The later two authors are referenced in the Minnesota project. In a recent (April 2024), Sanders said that transgender access to public restrooms rekindled his interest in queer space so he set up the ‘Stalled’ company with Prof Susan Stryker, but he admitted he did not have enough data on whether his designs worked as so few had been built. The reason for the fully enclosed idea is discussed in their paper referenced by ARUP: ‘A better solution, supported by many transactivists, and increasingly found in trendy nightclubs and restaurants, is to eliminate gender-segregated facilities entirely and treat the public restroom as one single open space with fully enclosed stalls.’

No safety concerns of fully enclosed cubicles were acknowledged in these two ARUP ‘evidences’. No analysis has been done on the safety on fully enclosed cubicles. The only ‘evidence’ was the Minnesota school questionnaire asking students about the all-inclusive restroom design (very open plan, with security cameras, separate sink rows). Full height ‘walls’ were rated in 3rd place for safety from a pre-prepared list. Only 43%, who knew both restroom types, preferred the all-inclusive model to whatever their old restrooms were (the difference approx 35 females, 83 males).

So the Arup recommendation for fully enclosed cubicles is from a tiny amount of very poor evidence and literature focused on a different group. Their ‘evidence’ bears no resemblance to any of the designs of UK toilets in Document T. Their ‘evidence’ does not take into account any long term health conditions nor disabilities’ analysis.

Considering it was looking at the requirements of people with long term health conditions, in the whole Arup document there was no mention of the words: seizure, faint, diabetes, cardiac, heart, epilepsy, syncope, endometriosis, menorrhagia, collapse. There was one mention of ‘stroke’ in reference to a grab rail. There are two pages of lists of references to handrails. However I would argue that a floor-to-door gap is even more vital in design for those having a stroke and those who are frail because of a previous stroke, so it can be seen they have collapsed from outside the cubicle.

What other equality impacts have been done?

I can not find any other evidence or research as to why the designs are fully enclosed in the published documents. Obviously this does not mean everything has been published. However, the Equality Impact Assessment for the Provision of Toilets (updated 15th May 2024) does not mention door gaps. It goes through all protected characteristics and does not identify any negative impacts of full enclosure.

Conclusion

Specifying toilet door gaps will enable offices, shops and entertainment venues to be suitable for workers and children with health conditions where there is a chance of collapse without warning and then Document T will satisfy the requirements in Equality Act 2010, The Health and Safety at Work Act (1974), Children Act 1989.

In terms of negative impacts for the protected characteristics in the Equality Act (2010), the absence of door to floor gaps in design affects age, sex (discussed above), disability (discussed above), and pregnancy and maternity. It affects everyone in terms of disease prevention, a medical emergency and fire evacuation.

The designs in Document T do specify that every door should be able to be opened from the outside and an inward opening door have a release mechanism so it can be pulled outwards in the event a body is blocking the door opening - but how do you know there is a body there? At the very least there should be a door gap of sufficient height between the floor and the bottom of the door to safeguard the occupant in single sex toilet designs C and D. As the designs are in Document T, there is no specification other than full height doors.

The government needs to enable people with long-term health conditions to live safe lives and help them be independent and in work. It needs women and children to be safe and prevent assaults through good design.

These designs have dismissed the rights of certain disabled groups (people with epilepsy etc) to a safe working and leisure environment.

There appears to be no emergency evacuation assessment and a fire risk assessment for a row of fully enclosed toilets compared to a ‘traditional’ row of toilets with door gaps.

There is no risk assessment on the impact of disease spread from less cleanable and less well ventilated fully enclosed toilets.

They do not recognise the danger of fully enclosed toilets for the chances of surviving a long term injury or death from collapse such as from a heart attack, stroke, epilepsy, brain injury, diabetes and fragility.

And they do not recognise the dangers, particularly to women and children, that a private space in a public area brings.

Single sex designs C and D need to specify floor-to-door safety gaps. If models A or B are used in single sex toilets, they need their design altered to include floor-to-door safety gaps.

It would also be life-saving to have floor-to-door safety gaps in all medical settings that are single sex in design.

Mind the gap! It could save your life.

It is absolutely essential SAFETY comes first.

IwantToRetire · 14/07/2024 00:33

I think the author is American which maybe relevant because traditionally toilets/restrooms over there are different.

Originally from Bangalore, India, and born and raised in Dubai, she has spent the last decade working and living in Melbourne, Australia, where she earned a degree in Psychology and Art History from the University of Melbourne

OP posts:
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