Brilliant Transwoman on Channel5 now

[Heavenssakes]

Really likeable , down to earth transwoman on Storm Huntley now.
Really open discussion, for once.

Totally

Don't be fooled

Yes the men in dresses listen to the men not in dresses telling them they give them the creeps, yet its unreasonable for women and children to feel that way and should shut up and budge up. Got it?

Katy Jon doesn't claim to be a woman.
Doesn't claim to pass.
Doesn't even really dress 'like a women'.
Doesn't use women's spaces.
Recognises women's concerns.
Doesn't demand female pronouns.
Admits trans is a mental health need.

He's openly had psychological issues around a sexual development disorder, and his physical transitions have helped resolved his psychologcal issues.

It feels to me like this thread is just hostility to him beciase he's trans.

Trans people are going to exist. Surely we want them to be taking Katy Jons position, and shouldn't think it's fine to ask them all about their genitals and say how gross they are?

I'm very openabout my ick around men who dress as women, but I accept they are going to exist and that I shouldn't be openly hosile towards them because I don't like their choices or regard them as mentally unwell.

What would everyone like Katy Jon to do whihc would mean that the public hositlity to him wasn't justified? Never speak publically? stop hormone treatment? Cut his hair? change his past views and behaviour?

Who are the acceptable (on FWR) trans women? Genuine question? To qualify do they have to have always agreed with feminsists, is any chnage of mind over time allowed?

I wonder what views are of Blair White for example? I think he's great, really interesting. But also obvioulsy transitioned as part of a mental helath and sexual need. He's also obvioulsy a huge women face example and hypes up the feminine whilst still having a dick. So yes I have problems with all that, but don't need to denigrate him for it.

Are the gay men who transition more accptable than the straight men? But aren't they oftne the drag queen/ hyper feminine doll types?
Do we assume all TW have sexual fetish?
How dow we know there isn't a DSD compoent for some?

This thread has just made me wondr. What's the end game here?
Just hate on all men who 'transition'?

Katy Jon doesn't claim to be a woman.
Doesn't claim to pass.
Doesn't even really dress 'like a women'.
Doesn't use women's spaces.
Recognises women's concerns.
Doesn't demand female pronouns.

well what's trans about him then? because he does say he's trans.

now I know, and I imagine you know, that there really is no such thing as trans, just people with very muddled and sexist thinking. but he says he's trans and that's because he thinks he has some kind of 'woman essence', although he may not admit it. He's sexist

I can't stop people being sexist, and I can't stop men having some very peculiar views about women, which let's be honest is probably a major driver behind his behaviour. I don't 'hate' sexist men with disordered thinking, although I don't like them very much either. It's not hateful to see that they have a disordered view of the world.

but I'm not talking to men, I'm talking to women, and I'm saying don't get taken in by this guy. he's not your friend. the part of you that makes you want to believe everyone can just get along makes you want to say he's 'brilliant'. not on women's rights he isn't, and he never will be. It's like saying Donald Trump is 'brilliant' on women's rights because he supports single sex toilets.

reality is not hateful, although it can be uncomfortable

How do you honestly think it feels for trans widows when you all pontificate here on whether a man who is exactly like our exes, right down down to being caught with photos of himself on a computer by his wife, is one of the good guys?

Who are the acceptable (on FWR) trans women? Genuine question? To qualify do they have to have always agreed with feminsists, is any chnage of mind over time allowed?
There's no such thing as trans as you cannot change sex. So genuine question right back at you.

What makes a man a transperson?

Who are the acceptable (on FWR) trans women?

None. A man can never be any kind of woman.

"If you won't accept a man who is exactly the same as the FWR trans widows exes as a woman, what men will you accept as a woman"?

Not that it particularly matters, but do we actually believe KJW has some sort of sexual development disorder? Because I see on Twitter all the time, TW saying they are some variation of intersex (their words, not mine) and I don't believe a word of it.
As soon as someone lies about their sex, they'll lie about anything as far as I'm concerned.

I think it's bollocks (so to speak).

I went to a talk with Katy Jon Went and Linda Bellos.

The talk was on how to disagree and remain friends, something they have achieved and I think we could all learn from.

KJW is aware he is a man. He identifies as trans because he spent much of his life extremely unhappy about the physical aspects of 'manliness' of his body. He took a long time to try various things to try and come to terms with how he felt before having surgery.

Having spoken to him in the last year or so , he says is happier now after the surgeries he has had; he feels more comfortable with his body.

Generally he speaks out to ask people to listen to each other. He does say he wishes everyone could be whatever gender they want to be.

I found him a reasonable person to talk to. He has been attacked on and offline by TRAs for his views/speaking out.

Agreed. He says he didn't go through male puberty. He clearly did, low voice, male facial structure.
Has he ever specified the DSD he allegedly suffers from?
He has had "bottom" surgery, which would be literally impossible if he had a tiny prepubescent penis, as they use this tube to invert and create the "vagina".
Don't buy it

He identifies as trans because he spent much of his life extremely unhappy about the physical aspects of 'manliness' of his body

I'll ask you then. What makes a man a transperson? What exactly is trans? There are a few people who modify their bodies such as tattooing their eyeballs to look reptillian, with bumps down their spine and a split tongue. That doesn't turn then into a magical lizard. So why is trans any different?

He identifies as trans because he spent much of his life extremely unhappy about the physical aspects of 'manliness' of his body
Tough. We all are unhappy with our bodies.

Also if you really believe this is the main reason you are very naive.

I look at him and think 'man',it's instant.

There's not a split second of doubt.

I used the term 'identifies as trans'

That's because I don't believe that anyone can transition ie. change from one sex to another.

I do understand that people struggle with aspects of their bodies - body dysmorphia and I am sympathetic to those people's struggles.

Other people, including myself struggle with the cultural stereotypes of gender that our societies create - usually to control or for capitalist reasons. According to Stonewall this makes me 'trans', which I absolutely refute. I'm also not keen on the term 'gender dysphoria' - because to me this depends on accepting gender stereotypes in the first place, which I don't.

I mean he's even called Jon FFS. That's how dedicated he is to being a "woman". I really thought we'd dealt with the "reasonable transexual" argument here years ago. It's very disappointing.

I used the term 'identifies as trans'
He can identify as what he likes but it's not true. He's no more a woman than the father of my child is a woman.

I don't think it matters if someone 'passes' or not. It's just a matter of how much money they have for plastic surgery/treatments.

It makes no change to the actual reality of whether they are a man or woman and what access they should have to single sex spaces.

I think it can also be very dangerous and rather cruel, because it can lead to people making judgments based on whether they think people look manly or womanly enough in sports/bathrooms etc. (happened recently with a sportswoman)

Looking it, doesn't mean being it.

I don't have to look like a woman to be allowed in single sex spaces and I'm not sure I would be happy with someone deciding my hairstyle and facial hair excludes me from them.

He doesn't claim to be a women.

I'm using 'trans' to describe someone like Katy Jon who uses medical prodecures and cosmetic surgery to alter their body to look more like the opposite sex.
These people exist. What would you call them?

Trans isnt a great term because it means so many things, but I'm not sure what else we'd call KJ, Blair White etc? Yes they're men. But if we want to decsribe them as 'men who alter their bodies to look more feminine' what word do we use for that?

I haven't said KJ is 'brilliant' or a 'good one' or any of the other ludricorus accusations else being thrown at me.

In fact I said he's a bit of a self absorbed attention seeker.

But in terms of being a man who has changed his body to be more feminine, what do you want from him?
He doesn't claim to be a women.
Doesn't demand a change of language.
Doesn't use womens spaces.

What do you want 'men who alter their bodies to look more feminine' (we need a word for that) to do, more than that?

He doesn't claim to be a women.

I've met him.
He is obviously a man, but is weirdly feminine with it.

He's one fof the few I've met who seem to genuinely trigger an uncanny valley space of knowing he's a man but feeling there's somehitng womanly about him.
And he doesn't wear make up or obvious women's clothes.
He has long hair and breasts from hormones.

He does seem inbetweeny if you know waht I mean.
But yes you still know he's a man and he';s fine with you saying that and being called a man.