A male 'non binary' person gains a female GRC.

[ArabellaScott]

A man applied for a GRC and was initially rejected. That was overturned at appeal, and he now has a GRC that says he is female, despite his identity being 'non binary'.

https://www.dacbeachcroft.com/en/What-we-think/DACB-succeeds-in-pro-bono-Gender-Recognition-Act-appeal

From the judgement:

'Dr Longworth stated that the applicant ‘has a stable feminine non-binary gender identity and has lived in a congruent social role since at least 2015’. '

'That letter recorded the applicants ‘goals’ for treatment as being:
a) To achieve a gynaecoid body shape, including adult female breast
development;
b) To achieve a reduction in facial and body hair; and
c) To retain the capacity to have a functional penis, with capacity for
erection and genital sexual response.

Dr Longworth’s letter explained that there was a basic biological incompatibility
between the first two goals and the third. If the applicant were to discontinue hormone treatment, as she had attempted in the past, in order to achieve goal (c), then her gender dysphoria symptoms would be likely to return. If, however, she were to continue with hormone treatment the long-term effect would be reduction in sex drive and the development of erectile dysfunction. Dr Longworth advised that it was for the applicant ‘to decide what takes priority’.

'The Panel considered that the detail relied upon to reach a diagnosis of gender dysphoria was lacking and that the language used in the letter describing the appellant as ‘non-binary’ contradicted her assertion that she was a transgender woman. The Panel concluded that this did not accord with the binary approach required by the GRA 2004. The Panel was also troubled by the period during which the appellant had ceased taking testosterone blockers and they considered that Dr Longworth’s report highlighted the appellant’s incompatible
treatment goals, namely wishing to retain male sexual function whilst seeking female gender affirming hormone treatment, thereby undermining the appellant’s overall aim of being recognised as a woman'

'With regard to s 2(1)(b), that she ‘has lived in the acquired gender throughout the period of two years ending with the date on which the application is made’, the Panel had concluded that this element was not satisfied as ‘there is very little evidence that you are living in real life as a female’.'

So this person with their newly acquired breasts and retained penis has a GRC - and is now entitled to change and shower alongside 12 year old girls in the women's swimming pool changing rooms?
And if women ask questions about this, then according to Sir Keir, we're engaged in toxic debates, lacking in respect and unkind to these traumatised individuals. Do I have that right?

This sounds like the perfect example for journalists to use when asking labour politicians about men in women's spaces and the legal nonsense that is the GRC.

I'd like someone to ask Keir and Angela if this chap should be in womens spaces.

Sorry, I must be missing something here. What has 'feminine' got to do with being 'female'? Why are they linking the two completely separate things together as though they were interchangeable?

This is just what I was singing in to say.

The public needs to know what’s really going on

I mean, how much easier does it need to be?

This needs to be a major talking point tomorrow. If only Jane could get a slot in the radio again

It's probably a good example of what Keir is talking about when he says the current process is 'undignified'.

Fucking right it's 'undignified'; it's absurd.

Cause gender and sex are treated as interchangeable.

I've been asking TRAs on here for some time whether 'woman/man' as a gender identity broadly means "feminine/masculine". Every single person refused to answer. Including RMW, if I recall correctly.

Never mind, at least we can see this completely illogical conflation confirmed by the law here.

Well, then, no-one can have a gender that either does or doesn't match their sex, because we are talking about the same thing.

Which is erasing trans people. And cis people!

If you'd said ten? twenty? years ago that there was a man who had breast implants and their body hair removed while keeping his penis and the government had given them a certificate saying they were a woman - nobody would have believed you.

Yet this is now our reality. And Sir Keir & his mates think it's wonderful

iirc, for some time, the prediction has been that the concept of trans and NB will come into ideological conflict.

It will be interesting to see if they merge or if this will lead to an erasure of something.

I know several formerly male-presenting NBs who didn't progress to male-affirming as yet (no mastectomies etc.) and a couple of neutrois who would like nullifying interventions. I don't know if this ruling will affect the latter and their ability to access nullifying interventions.

Yes, but I'd assume they want the NHS to pay for it. In which case the investment in the GRC is well worth it as I guess the cost for these things in the private sector is higher.

This is absolutely awful. How dare this be happening.

This is the absurdity of the GRA. He wants to look like a woman but fuck like a man.

“let the sunshine in, let the sunshine in ….”

I think we can see what’s going on here, can’t we?

Does the GRC grant access to NHS "gender affirming treatment" then?

Because I'd like to get some electrolysis and a thread vein treatment.

As I'm very on record as having no gender id would a grc for female gender id transition get me that?

Yes, in some infamous and more run of the mill cases.

Karen Jones: https://4w.pub/male-sex-offender-murderer-paved-way-for/

Sinead Watson and TullipR were both NHS, iirc. I know family friends' children who've received hormones via NHS but none, afaik, has had affirming surgery.

Paris Lees (private and NHS): https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/paris-lees-interview-the-flipside_uk_6166a5cee4b0d3f507c5427e

I dont think the two - GRC and the right NHS treatments are linked.

The same diagnosis will be required for both, but nhs treatment will be based on need and suitability, not GRC status.

As I'm very on record as having no gender id would a grc for female gender id transition get me that?

Women with PCOS have mentioned that they're not eligible for hair removal etc.

I dont think the two - GRC and the right NHS treatments are linked.

But, as per Jones, the one has been parlayed into the other.

The detransitioners (including Keira Bell) indicate the NHS' attention to need and suitability.

However, from this week on, there probably won't be any need for a GRC at all. Just a non-falsifiable assertion.

Well this does effectively prove it isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Christ this is such bullshit but at least written have a case to point to now, for all MPs to see what nonsense parliament has unleashed on us.

The appliant 'has a stable feminine non-binary gender identity and has lived in a congruent social role since at least 2015’. '

And what does that look like, exactly, the 'congruent social role' of 'feminine non-binary'?

Uh...Boobies?? 😏

He breasts boobily.