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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Alistair Campbell on Channel 4 with Rory Stewart

111 replies

Screamingabdabz · 25/06/2024 23:36

On ‘The Rest is Politics’ show…

Doesn’t ‘need to read JKR’ because he ‘knows what her position is’. She may thinks she speaks for women ‘but not the women in my life’ etc. trans are ‘the most marginalised and disadvantaged group’ etc etc Voters don’t actually give a shit.

Rory Stewart more nuanced answer and told him to listen to the Witchtrials podcast (AC’s face said ‘hell will freeze over first’) BUT then says as men it’s not really their issue so they should just ‘step back’.

Fucking infuriating.

OP posts:
FlossieF · 26/06/2024 19:29

Hewlet · 26/06/2024 17:20

I too was very frustrated by this part of the discussion. It’s the relegation of women’s rights once again.
I would like them to comment on women’s issues far more often, but why would they? They just don’t appear to be on their radars.

Agree. I think that the response to the what did your parents do question I and Westfacing mentioned above is illuminating as to why that is - massive quantities of subconscious basis. When RS talked about his mother, AC seemed genuinely surprised to learn what she'd done in her life. Not necessarily surprised that a woman would have done those things (he's not that much of a dinosaur), more surprise that this was all news to him. They've discussed their fathers before, but it seemed that the subject of mothers had never come up.

They have interviewed plenty of women on their Leading podcasts, and are ostensibly interested to hear what women have to say on the "important" things they are already interested in. And they do discuss with them the problems they have faced in politics. Other women's issues - not so much. But agree with Eurochick and others that RS does appear to be getting a bit more engaged with this particular problem though.

ForForToo · 26/06/2024 19:33

I somehow missed that this is Campbell’s stance. I have always liked him and agreed with much of what he says on many topics, but on this issue he can get to fuck.

You don’t speak for me the women in MY life, mate.

CaveMum · 26/06/2024 21:19

we e just had the women’s rights question on the Leadership debate. Starmer fluffed his lines and I do think Rishi landed a few punches.

It’ll be interesting to see what AS and RS say on their live broadcast in about 15 mins! They can’t ignore it when it’s been a specific question.

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/06/2024 21:28

Would it be bad of me to paraphrase Campbell and say I don't need to hear what he has to say, I already know what it'll be? 😬

CaveMum · 26/06/2024 21:36

Shall we tell him that about his new books - we don’t need to buy them, we know what it will say 😜

They're live on You Tube now.

JeannieDark · 26/06/2024 21:39

eurochick · 26/06/2024 17:39

I'm very disappointed by them both on this issue. They have shown such intelligence and sensitivity around issues such as geopolitics and mental health but have brushed over this basic women's rights issue. At least it sounds like Rory is starting to grasp the issue. AC is still being a compete twat about it.

Completely agree with this. I've read both of Rory's books (one much better than the other) and listen to the podcast twice a week and really enjoy it for the most part - just not on this topic and I honestly don't think it's something I can 'disafeee agreeably' on. I'm really disappointed in AC especially.

CaveMum · 26/06/2024 21:40

AC thinks KS did well on his answer about women. Jaysus 🤦🏻‍♀️

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/06/2024 21:51

Quelle surprise, AC in slavish devotion to current Labour leader during an election shocker! 😏

TitusMoan · 26/06/2024 21:57

FlossieF · 26/06/2024 11:12

I just listening to this episode and was pleased to see a thread on it already. Most of my thoughts match views already articulated by PPs.

Thought it might be worth mentioning that a couple of weeks ago during one of the TRIP question time episodes, they were asked what their parents did for a living. Both of them talked about their fathers at length, and neither mentioned their mothers.

This was pointed out by a listener, and so in another question time episode a week or two later, they actually talked about their mothers (having first talked some more about fathers). Turns out that RS's mother had had a really interesting working life. Yet it didn't dawn on him to mention it before, despite the original question being specifically directed to parents......

This is interesting… but I’ve been listening to TRIP for a long time, and RS has mentioned his mother a lot over that time, whereas I can’t recall him saying much about his father. Seems to me she was the one he actually spoke to!

teawamutu · 26/06/2024 22:39

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/06/2024 21:28

Would it be bad of me to paraphrase Campbell and say I don't need to hear what he has to say, I already know what it'll be? 😬

I think it would be essential.

I would add, given he's shown he opines without bothering his arse to inform himself on this issue - which others does he do that on and why the fuck should we give credence to his views on anything?

Esimasia · 26/06/2024 23:02

I used to be a massive TRIP fan and have even been to see them live twice. But they haven’t got a fucking clue about 51% of the population and don’t seem to give a shit either. They never answer questions I constantly post on Twitter about women’s issues and lamely duck out and squirm around answering anything in depth. Like it’s a political hot potato and they don’t want to offend anyone.

I have moved over to Electoral Dysfunction.

CassieMaddox · 26/06/2024 23:13

LadyHester · 26/06/2024 09:35

How dare he describe trans people as the most persecuted minority in our society when Rosie Duffield is unable to attend hustings because of real threats to her physical safety? Where are the people at peaceful demos and meetings wearing ‘Punch a TW’ T-shirts? How many people have lost their jobs or received threatening visits from the police for saying TWAW?
I have cancelled my subscription.
(And what alternative political podcasts would people recommend?)

Electoral Dysfunction is great and all women (Ruth Davidson, Beth Rigby and Jess Phillips)
I listen to both but sometimes TRiP is a bit to much mens opinions for me.

CassieMaddox · 26/06/2024 23:19

I think its an overreaction to stop listening just because AC is not GC. It's a bit like cancel culture/purity spiralling. AC can be opinionated but at least he is clear what his opinions are. And Rory and he are very knowledgeable especially on global politics.

SuePreemly · 26/06/2024 23:22

RoyalCorgi · 26/06/2024 12:20

Says it all, doesn't it? They don't even think of their mothers as an answer to that question. A bias so deep-rooted they're not even aware of it.

Well Rory's father was my Grandpa's CO in Normandy then went on to lead MI6 I think, so I suspect his wife might have been typical of her generation and as a high ranking military wife, not worked? I am guessing here though.

teawamutu · 26/06/2024 23:30

CassieMaddox · 26/06/2024 23:19

I think its an overreaction to stop listening just because AC is not GC. It's a bit like cancel culture/purity spiralling. AC can be opinionated but at least he is clear what his opinions are. And Rory and he are very knowledgeable especially on global politics.

But are they knowledgeable? We know they're shit on the issue we know a lot about. Are we just giving them credit for issues we don't know about because they sound very confident?

CaveMum · 26/06/2024 23:30

@SuePreemly listening to what RS said about his mother, she has led a fascinating life. I’ve lifted the transcript of the episode here, it doesn’t specify who is talking where but you can figure it out fairly easily:

“So my mother was a GP's daughter, father was a doctor. She went to Oxford in the 1950s. My mother's down, staying with me in London at the moment.

I hope she is now old enough to not be embarrassed to hear. She's now 88 years old. We walked probably about three miles yesterday through the streets of London with my 88-year-old mother and my two little children.

So, thank goodness, touching wood all over the place, she's in very good form. But she went to Oxford, she worked for Television Wales. She jumped in a Land Rover and drove from London to Kuala Lumpur in the late 1950s.

For Television Wales?

Yeah, I worked for Television Wales, yeah.

What was she doing in Television Wales?

She was a producer and the way she describes it is those were the glory days of television. She was traveling first class on the train up and down to Wales. She loved the Welsh producers, very interested in Welsh language.

Anyway, then she moved to Kuala Lumpur. She became an advertising executive in Malaysia and then she taught at the University of Malaya, taught agricultural economics relating almost to your dad, met my father, came back to London and then we moved back to Malaysia and then Hong Kong where again she was different forms of academic. She ended up being the head of Hong Kong University Business School.

Blimey, she's got much longer adult CV than my mum.

Yeah, in a way you wouldn't really believe it if you met her. She's also incredibly interested in clothes and shoes. She's very laid back.

She loves doing her tapestry and reading trashy novels on the sofa. And she's also somebody, I don't know, she's a sort of counter example to the way that we're told to live our lives. She's somebody who took absolutely no exercise at any point in her entire existence.

And consequently age of 88 is really fit and well.

No, she's amazingly fit for 88, no doubt about that.

And I think her argument is she didn't wear her knees out unlike Joe Biden by doing whatever he was doing.”

From The Rest Is Politics: Question Time: Orban in person, Biden's fragility, and the subtle art of focus groups, 19 Jun 2024
podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rest-is-politics/id1611374685?i=1000659404863
This material may be protected by copyright.

Esimasia · 27/06/2024 06:02

CaveMum · 26/06/2024 23:30

@SuePreemly listening to what RS said about his mother, she has led a fascinating life. I’ve lifted the transcript of the episode here, it doesn’t specify who is talking where but you can figure it out fairly easily:

“So my mother was a GP's daughter, father was a doctor. She went to Oxford in the 1950s. My mother's down, staying with me in London at the moment.

I hope she is now old enough to not be embarrassed to hear. She's now 88 years old. We walked probably about three miles yesterday through the streets of London with my 88-year-old mother and my two little children.

So, thank goodness, touching wood all over the place, she's in very good form. But she went to Oxford, she worked for Television Wales. She jumped in a Land Rover and drove from London to Kuala Lumpur in the late 1950s.

For Television Wales?

Yeah, I worked for Television Wales, yeah.

What was she doing in Television Wales?

She was a producer and the way she describes it is those were the glory days of television. She was traveling first class on the train up and down to Wales. She loved the Welsh producers, very interested in Welsh language.

Anyway, then she moved to Kuala Lumpur. She became an advertising executive in Malaysia and then she taught at the University of Malaya, taught agricultural economics relating almost to your dad, met my father, came back to London and then we moved back to Malaysia and then Hong Kong where again she was different forms of academic. She ended up being the head of Hong Kong University Business School.

Blimey, she's got much longer adult CV than my mum.

Yeah, in a way you wouldn't really believe it if you met her. She's also incredibly interested in clothes and shoes. She's very laid back.

She loves doing her tapestry and reading trashy novels on the sofa. And she's also somebody, I don't know, she's a sort of counter example to the way that we're told to live our lives. She's somebody who took absolutely no exercise at any point in her entire existence.

And consequently age of 88 is really fit and well.

No, she's amazingly fit for 88, no doubt about that.

And I think her argument is she didn't wear her knees out unlike Joe Biden by doing whatever he was doing.”

From The Rest Is Politics: Question Time: Orban in person, Biden's fragility, and the subtle art of focus groups, 19 Jun 2024
podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rest-is-politics/id1611374685?i=1000659404863
This material may be protected by copyright.

She sounds awesome. What a life, and had Rory at 37, which was considered quite late back then.

His Wikipedia page also only mentions his Dad’s occupation. I wonder how many Wiki pages of the famous do this?

That she has had such a varied, successful, interesting life and is reduced to just “wife” on his Wiki page is giving patriarchy:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Stewart

Esimasia · 27/06/2024 06:08

The other thing that really pisses me off about the two of them is how they admit to having really fuck all to do with raising their own kids.

I remember listening to a TRIP pod ages ago where they discussed this and feeling so very disappointed in them both.

MadameMassiveSalad · 27/06/2024 06:38

Omg I was fucking infuriated too op!
Such a fucking co out AC!!!

MadameMassiveSalad · 27/06/2024 06:59

MadameMassiveSalad · 27/06/2024 06:38

Omg I was fucking infuriated too op!
Such a fucking co out AC!!!

(COP out)

CassieMaddox · 27/06/2024 08:46

teawamutu · 26/06/2024 23:30

But are they knowledgeable? We know they're shit on the issue we know a lot about. Are we just giving them credit for issues we don't know about because they sound very confident?

Yes of course they are! They are in and around politicians all the time. Rory was a diplomat in Iraq, then a minister in the Conservatives and Alistair was in the Blair government. They have both actually done the job for a substantial periods. Therefore experts in a real sense (not an armchair, got a degree in it sense).

RoyalCorgi · 27/06/2024 08:59

Rory's mum sounds great - all the more disappointing that he doesn't get it.

Even now, I feel puzzled as to why so many don't understand the issue. It seems so simple to me. Humans can't change sex. As soon as you start pretending that they do, you inevitably create massive problems. Why is it that some people can grasp that and others can't?

FrancescaContini · 27/06/2024 09:07

Westfacing · 26/06/2024 11:17

Last week they were asked what their parents did for a living: Stewart's father was in the army and Campbell's a country vet, we were told.

Something missing there Hmm

Good point. Presumably, if their mothers were around when these men were children, they did a fair amount of work, too? 🧐

ScrollingLeaves · 27/06/2024 09:22

RoyalCorgi · 27/06/2024 08:59

Rory's mum sounds great - all the more disappointing that he doesn't get it.

Even now, I feel puzzled as to why so many don't understand the issue. It seems so simple to me. Humans can't change sex. As soon as you start pretending that they do, you inevitably create massive problems. Why is it that some people can grasp that and others can't?

They are too arrogant to read about the issue, think they know everything already, and think it is like being gay and a no-harm-done lifestyle. Also men at arms together types. That’s my guess.

RoyalCorgi · 27/06/2024 09:32

They are too arrogant to read about the issue, think they know everything already, and think it is like being gay and a no-harm-done lifestyle. Also men at arms together types. That’s my guess.

I think you're absolutely right. And yet I still can't quite get past my initial reaction, which is: How is it possible to be that stupid?

I've always worked on the assumption that people who are (apparently) intelligent and educated arrive at their political positions by thinking them through first. This is how I have arrived at my political views - every issue that I have an opinion on is something I have thought about at length, weighing up the arguments. It's come as a shock to find that other people, especially people whose very job involves debating political issues, arrive at their views without apparently putting any thought into them whatsoever.

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