Did Keir Starmer just say

[Helpuschoose]

To Nick Ferrari on LBC that transwomen with a GRC will not be allowed in female single-sex spaces? It sounded like it. Is this a clear move or does it still leave wriggle-room? I’m not sure.

I'm not even sure that the extra spaces would have to be provided, ultimately. Just offered.

It instantly punctures the whole bullshit narrative and collapses it.

For the time being he does have the option of making special provision for men with GRCs because its a minuscule number. That's only a short-term fix though, if numbers go up.

We all know what they're really about, but we could pretend to treat them as 'men with a phobia of other men'.

I seem to remember (happy to be told I'm wrong) that when single sex wards have been discussed, it's emerged that some hospitals describe an arrangement as separate when in reality there's just one room with screens around one bit of it & loos, showers, etc are mixed. So talk of separate wards or separate rooms or single sex facilities may not mean one room for women only plus single sex facilities. That's not good enough.

His comments aren’t getting much traction online amongst all the other noise which is deemed so much more important. But The Times have at least referenced it in their rolling coverage.

Exactly.

You know, I'm starting to understand the impulse to turn to extreme violence that many men have, irrespective of how pretty their skirt or twirly their hair.

I think Mridhul Wadwha doesn’t have a GRC

I don’t see how Labour can make this work if a man can have a birth certificate saying he is female and it is illegal to see a GRC

But still somehow, because no one has a backbone, has a job.

Because the board, who would be the ones to sack him, are all captured recent Edinburgh graduates who were also criticised by the judge. OSCR are toothless and most of the funding comes from a Scottish government pushing this agenda.

I don’t see how Labour can make this work if a man can have a birth certificate saying he is female and it is illegal to see a GRC.

He's fudging it. People don't get asked to show their GRC, they show their replacement birth certificate. The amended one, which shows they are a woman.

When he says 'sex' he means 'gender' identity', and I'll take any bet you offer thats also the reason he keeps saying 'women's safe spaces' and not 'single sex exemptions'.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/cymraeg/Defnyddwyr/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services1/goods-and-services-what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/check-if-a-business-has-discriminated-against-you-because-youre-transgender/

https://twitter.com/WhatIsAWomanUK/status/1803004602184261770?t=RWUSqQJ_2oySb61HBHNHKw&s=19

Venice Allan interviews Wes Streeting. He's clear but I picked up on it will take time. Seems like the Culture War won't cease on day 1.

Excellent job by Venice by the way.

On the ERCC case, I think I am right in saying we haven’t had the hearing for compensation? It would be interesting to see what the judge makes of the lack of action, or apology, by ERCC when it comes to that.

If a GRC changes sex then how can a hospital exclude? The NHS record on self ID.

Starmer sounds reasonable until you look at how his promise would work in reality.

Plus look at what he's not saying.

No apology to Rosie Duffield.

No clarity on conversion therapy.

No clarity on how sex is defined in the EA.

It's just enough to piss off tras and not enough to reassure women.

When he says 'sex' he means 'gender' identity

I think not. When he talked about women with penises, he meant legal sex. But what he said to Ferrari can only be construed as saying that single-sex spaces for women and girls, which are 'important', must be based on birth sex. He's a lawyer: he knows what he's saying.

It's not illegal to ask someone their birth sex, or whether they have a GRC, or whether they are trans. And for most purposes, we could go back to relying on the evidence of our eyes.

Exactly.

The GRC is a red herring. It's not because of a legit GRC that men are imaging women's spaces wholesale.

No one is checking on the door!!

This shit show is what happens when you try to reorganise society around a vague and undefinable feeling that some people have, rather than a clear observable set of characteristics.

Why is this so difficult for otherwise intelligent people to comprehend?

Wes. With a bit less of a weasley answer. Two issues:

1. Cubicles presumably carry some risk for observation on patients as it is harder for staff to see across the ward. I'm thinking medically as well as checking who's accessing adult and child, male and female patients when they should not be (Savile type scenarios)

1. Designing hospitals differently seems like an excellent way to kick this can down the road. Just say you'd LOVE to have done more but there was no money. But if re-elected, you'll DEFINITELY do it.

x.com/whatisawomanuk/status/1803004602184261770?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Some history

July 2006

Hospitals must review patients’ safety after rapes shock.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/1be19495-1a25-4ef5-81b2-b88e2144b98e?shareToken=de05b28430a7a5653326f58dee5f478cc_

National review ordered into NHS sexual assaults.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/a090d9aa-8348-43f9-9295-c0e53eda78fb?shareToken=ee542a04b2d5ed73b8f10ecb6a41f28ff_

2008

Goal of single sex wards ‘not feasible’.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/9acb0d3c-05aa-4115-8d72-3b446af04636?shareToken=5a1b097d9aaf418a36b4d907c7bc0eabb_

2007 - scroll to second entry for Retreat on wards

https://www.thetimes.com/article/97224df8-4938-48cd-82b3-a1631b85bc1a?shareToken=9c29cdbc5fbdcc086e79d25c071303800_

August 2007

Woman dies after attack in mixed sex psychiatric ward.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e09ac046-fe19-4968-93e5-e0bda4942456?shareToken=c333d2393ccf0ada2423c110bce6d1a55_

August 2010

Pledge to end mixed sex wards could cost millions, experts warn.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/7a44a5cb-273b-4828-b2ae-36f50ca8b6b5?shareToken=32d5d6f5cc3857162effaae31501fff33_

End of the mixed sex hospital ward promised by 2011, says minister.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/13423efd-38ce-41f3-9da2-9d153477de8e?shareToken=a5205ae744bb50d854fe37d28ff093e11_

Oh dear. Looks like Streeting is thinking about the sort of separate cubicle solution that nobody likes for toilets. The women don't mind sharing with each other Wes!

Also I don't know whether Keir has noticed but the NHS is on its knees.

It's difficult enough to get a bed in the correct sex bay, let alone ward. Let alone a bloody side room! How are bed managers, ward managers and nurses at the sharp end supposed to police this when the government won't give them clear guidance and tries to gaslight everyone about what is happening? How are they supposed to refuse an aggy TW who is insisting on a side room because Keir said so?

The current laws are clear as mud and being misinterpreted all over the place.

The problem isn't solved by saying 'the law is clear'.Stonewall version of law has been adopted all across public services and this will only change with strong top down leadership.

DrNickedMaCorpus · Today 11:46
If a GRC changes sex then how can a hospital exclude? The NHS record on self ID

Exactly this, people can and do change their sex marker on their NHS record without a GRC, same with passport. So hospitals can say they maintain single sex wards because on paper they do. We end up with the awful situation of the woman who was raped on a ward then told it didn't happen as there were no men there.

If you change the meaning of words, then words have no meaning.

Just saw this:

It's ridiculous that we allow girls that identify as girls, girls that don't identify as girls and boys that identify as girls but not other boys. HQ claims that we are now a single gender organisation but as we (rightly) don't kick out the girls that think they're boys, how on earth do they manage to say this with a straight face?

ResisterRex
Totally agree. If you watch the full interview there's a lot of heartfelt good intentions but still riding two horses at the same time. It's frustrating.

'Heartfelt' is not what you get when running a very well funded, researched political campaign, I'm sorry. You get 'focus grouped', 'advised', and 'carefully worded'.

Riding two horses is totally deliberate.

He's a lawyer and knows the difference between 'single sex exemption' and 'women's safe space'. If he's using the latter, its deliberate.

Yep.

Noting also that 'It's really important' seems to be a phrase that both Streeting and Starmer have decided to adopt this week - I assume after the farce of last week's 'fuck it we don't care' approach to women's rights, dismissal of concerns as 'culture wars', and having to rein in Cashman, etc.

'The consensus among women is that we don't give a shit, Wes!'
'It's cool, Keir, tell them it's really important, they'll buy it'.