Gender/trans and the next government

[SmudgeHughes]

The Lib Dems and Greens are promising full gender self-ID, including non-binary identities. Labour is more vague, saying that it would “modernise, simplify, and reform” the Gender Recognition Act, while also promising to support the “implementation of the single sex exceptions in the Equality Act”.

The Conservatives say that, if they were re-elected, they would introduce primary legislation to clarify that the protected characteristic of sex in the Equality Act means biological sex.

Policy analysts Murray Blackburn MacKenzie say that the most straightforward way to make the Equality Act clear would be to disapply Section 9 of the Gender Recognition Act from the Equality Act, perhaps by an amendment to either one. Section 9 is the part that sets out that a gender-recognition certificate changes a person’s sex “for all [legal] purposes” other than the listed exceptions.

As gender analysts Sex Matters says, The next government will face ongoing questions about issues of sex and gender. It will become increasingly impossible to ignore that these concern women’s rights, freedom of speech and child safeguarding, and are not merely a matter of “trans rights” – that is, of interest only to a tiny minority with no impact on anyone else.

Trade Unions started off small and eventually became a political force, we don't have a PoW candidate where I am but I would vote for one if we did.

It took 70 years from the Tolpuddle martyrs to the formation of the Labour party but they didn't have the internet.😁

Unfortunately #nodebate was quite successful for a while, and many ‘allies’ have steadfastly refused to engage in any kind of critical thinking/discussion, especially when their friends/relations decry any kind of challenge. Add to this, the well-known phenomenon that parents who have encouraged and enabled their child’s transition are those fighting most strongly against any suggestion that in doing so, they have actually caused harm. This is why posters suggest Starmer’s views may be skewed.

I’d like to think that if he (or anyone!) genuinely engaged in proper consideration of the issues, they simply couldn’t come to the conclusion that ‘some women have a penis’. Although, that does suggest that he hasn’t really thought about it properly…

#nodebate

I wasn't talking about no debate.

I was pointing out that somehow, most people including politicians seem to equate supporting trans with needing to deny women only / same sex (biological) provision.

That is the issue that shows behind what is seen as the "be kind" position lurks this pure antiwoman position.

The the extreme TRAs have turned what should be about being supportive of trans ideas into something that in practice is about denying women's rights.

This.

I am shocked that some people are thinking of voting to keep the Tories who have done so much harm in so many areas of all our lives. I genuinely hope Mumsnet is not representative of the population.

It's not. That's why Labour are well ahead in the polls.

Tories who have done so much harm in so many areas of all our lives

I think many women know this, but unfortunately if you want to use this as your arguement it doesn't work.

Nearly everybody, not just ousted Labour lefties, but non partisan commentators and so on, say the Labour manifesto is hardly different from the Tories.

And in fact support for Labour has nothing to do with their manifesto but is just an anti tory vote.

And in 5 years time everyone will be moaning nothing has changed.

And even in terms of Labour maybe being a bit more competent in terms of actually getting things done, based on my local Labour authority, we can look forward to more incompetence, and little change.

For heavens sake, to not even remove the 2 child cap.

What is the point of the Labour Party if it is just a mirror of the Tories, and no respect for women's sex based rights.

With FPTP the losers are always the electorate.

My concern is that whereas Keir may know what a women is, the other top women in the LP definitely don’t. Wes Streeting is not trustworthy in this issue either.

We need to stop gender ideology being worshipped before a whole generation of children accepts it as fact.

re the Tories and Covid - personally I don’t care too much about the parties - I think they must have been incredibly stressed, we’re probably stuck together for months on end. The reason we got the vaccine first is that they threw money in lots of directions - and Jbthink the same happened for PPE. With hindsight J think we forget how desperate the whole situation was.

Reform say specifically in their manifesto they will get the gender ideology out of schools.

This is the main reason I’m voting Tory but not the only reason. I’m also voting Tory because I don’t support massive tax increases and mass immigration that will happen under Labour.

@Hedgeoffressian so nevermind the tragic state of schools and hospitals.

One of the biggest problems this country has faced in my lifetime is that every one wants 'Scandi-standard' public services, but they don't want to pay the taxes to pay for it. Or, they want someone else to pay the higher taxes. And, of course, they're egged on by the Daily Mail (see todays headline) and the rest of the Tory press.

It's become a really binary (no pun intended) issue. Either you support women's rights and women-only sports, awards, jobs, toilets, or you support trans rights and trans people can use any resources intended for the opposite sex.

Who and where are the campaigners wanting trans rights in the sense that trans people should not be discriminated against in jobs, housing, pay etc., but should use the resources of their birth sex? Surely that has to be the only way forward? (Yes, I know many trans people want "affirmation", but tough shit on that one, since it requires everyone else to lie.)

My local candidate is Miriam Cates, which makes my choices slightly easier if I can convince myself I'm voting for her, not the Tories.
But it may still be a spoilt ballot, because it won't be any of the rest of them.
What a depressing state we're currently in.

Yes, sorry, I totally agree with this

Then Labour, Lib Dem’s and Greens need to come right out and defend women rights against the TRAs and Keir Starmer needs to apologise to Rosie Duffield while he’s at it. Defending women’s rights is my priority and I will judge my constituency candidates on this.

@Hedgeoffressian irony surely ? the tories already have the highest immigration in recent history and the highest taxes in 100 years ? It’s already happened…

So if the tories win on the basis of your reluctant votes and they’ve banned trans people or what ever and you’re happy, what then ? Farage becomes leader, terminations are restricted, benefits cut to bare minimum ? What happens when your country becomes even shittier ? No doubt you can tell your daughters, I voted for this 😂

We need as many MPs in parliament who are not afraid to will speak out and defend women’s rights especially if Labour gets a super majority. Miriam Cates has form in this area she will be good at challenging Anneliese Dodds Labours women’s and equality minister but believes TWAW. Interestingly Kemi Badenoch is good mates with Rosie Duffield because they are allies defending women’s rights against the TRAs. They confess they differ in lots of other areas politically but on this issue they are united.

Sorry this is the quote I was replying to apologies to DueToTheDirt for quoting them incorrectly

Thé tories also had to deal with Covid and paying a high proportion of the country to stay at home.
They tried to have a plan for immigration but it got pushed back .

All politicians lie about immigration. They all claim they want to reduce it, because they think that's what the GBP wants to hear, but, in practice, they facilitate it. The Tories are especially hypocritical about this; remember Theresa May's regular claims to get immigration down to under 10000 or something crazy? Back in the real world, it carries on. Because governments know that immigrants are likely to be workers and taxpayers, compared to Britain's ageing population. The claims that Brexit would reduce immigration were particularly laughable (and cynical); as I said at the time, all Brexit meant was that the immigrants would be from India or Pakistan rather than from Poland.

that immigrants are likely to be workers and taxpayers, compared to Britain's ageing population

This is a cliche about the ageing population.

The real problem is the lack of planning by Governments to create a work force with essential skills.

Over the past decades, since Tony Blair went bat shit about university education, all the skills we really need are no longer available to learn.

Added to which Governments have actually put caps on number of doctors, nurses etc.. being trained.

Although obviously a lot of more casual service industry jobs are done by people who may only be working in the UK temporarily, we are now really dependent on people who have been well educated in their own countries but come here to put them into use. Another train by the UK on other countries economies.

Governments are in the business of winning the next election. They seldom look further forward than that. More so than ever these days.'Quick fixes', soundbites, are increasingly the order of the day. So when Labour talks about 6500 new doctors, or whatever it was, it's fair to wonder, where are they coming from? Train up your own? Takes years, and the next administration probably gets the credit. Import them from other countries? Seems quicker fix. But like all quick fixes, it has its drawbacks. But what are 'the skills we really need that are no longer available to learn'? Not learning to use a lathe or a milling machine, that's for sure.

Not forgetting that current NHS financial problems were caused by Labour going into partnership with private business, so that currently the NHS (and schools) are still paying off interest on loans.

That too, and I was going to add, I was reading a thread yesterday about "my husband is giving up teaching; he's had enough", which brought a torrent of support from other posters. The challenge for any UK government is not just to increase the numbers of teachers and doctors in the public sector, but to keep them there. Increasing numbers are voting with their feet, and you can't blame them.