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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour Manifesto

181 replies

AstonUniRank · 13/06/2024 11:44

FWR relevant bits:

'Tackling violence against women and girls

For too long, violence against women and girls has been ignored. Our landmark mission to halve violence against women and girls in a decade will require a national effort. We will use every government tool available to target perpetrators and address the root causes of abuse and violence.
That starts with tougher enforcement and protection. With Labour, there will be specialist rape and sexual offences teams in every police force. The most prolific and harmful perpetrators will be relentlessly targeted, using tactics normally reserved for terrorists and organised crime.
Prosecution rates for rape are shamefully low with many victims dropping out of the justice system when faced with years of delays. Labour will fast-track rape cases, with specialist courts at every Crown Court location in England and Wales.
Victims deserve better support. Building on the success of the approach adopted by Labour Police and Crime Commissioners, we will introduce domestic abuse experts in 999 control rooms so that victims can talk directly to a specialist, and ensure there is a legal advocate in every police force area to advise victims from the moment of report to trial.
Violence and abuse against women and girls does not come from nowhere. Misogyny is one root cause, and therefore Labour will ensure schools address misogyny and teach young people about healthy relationships and consent. We will ensure police forces have the powers they need to track and tackle the problem.
Stalking has not been treated with the seriousness it deserves. Labour will strengthen the use of Stalking Protection Orders and give women the right to know the identity of online stalkers. Spiking is a devastating crime for victims, leaving many women feeling vulnerable when they go out. Labour will introduce a new criminal offence for spiking to help police better respond to this crime.
We will strengthen the rights and protections available to women in co-habiting couples, as well as for whistleblowers in the workplace, including on sexual harassment.'

OP posts:
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duc748 · 13/06/2024 13:42

This leads to situations like those Spanish soldiers who are getting extra benefits cos they've elected to be known as women now. Why encourage this lunacy?

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/06/2024 13:42

That's my ballot being spoiled then.

I'd have voted Labour just to get rid of the current waste of space MP I have, but was waiting to see how stupid Starmer would be on this - given his wilful avoidance of the subject for years & ill thought out answers to any Qs asked. It's just insulting that they think this in any way touches on actually fixing any of the problems Labour created via GRA & EA2010.

My stance won't make any difference but my conscience will be clear.

TinselAngel · 13/06/2024 13:44

Nothing about the Spousal Exit Clause then.

3DayStockpiler · 13/06/2024 13:46

Cityenergy · 13/06/2024 13:15

GD is a challenging diagnosis to make. You cannot do a simple diagnostic definitive test. Its a matter of professional judgement.

Just as ASD is a challenging diagnosis to make for similar reasons. My Ex had to have a full day assessment with two specialist doctors who had to both agree for him to get a diagnosis. And that is for a diagnosis that affects no-one but him.

If Labour want to go down this path, then something similar is needed. Conditions that are hard to make a call on do need to have more than one specialist doctor involved and both to agree, especially when that diagnosis affects people other than the individual.

But really what is needed, is not a process looking just at GD yay or nay, but a proper holistic process to find out what the causes of the feelings of gender confusion are and how those can be addressed - much like the Cass report recommended.

Yet if they don't carefully define conversation therapy, what it is and what it is not, any approach other than you are what you say you are is likely risk litigation.

CassieMaddox · 13/06/2024 13:46

A few other relevant bits from the section on children/education:

As an initial step, Labour will open an additional 3,000 nurseries through upgrading space in primary schools, to deliver the extension of government funded hours families are entitled to.
Supporting children in the early part of their life also means giving parents the flexibility they need to care for their children. Labour will review the parental leave system, so it best supports working families, within our first year in government.

Every child should have a loving, secure home. Labour will work with local government to support children in care, including through kinship, foster care, and adoption, as well as strengthening regulation of the children’s social care sector.

Sadly, too often we see families falling through the cracks of public services. Labour will improve data sharing across services, with a single unique identifier, to better support children and families.

CassieMaddox · 13/06/2024 13:48

Child SEN and mental health:

Too often our education and care systems do not meet the needs of all children, including those with Special Educational Needs and Disabilities (SEND). Labour will take a community-wide approach, improving inclusivity and expertise in mainstream schools, as well as ensuring special schools cater to those with the most complex needs. We will make sure admissions decisions account for the needs of communities and require all schools to co-operate with their local authority on school admissions, SEND inclusion, and place planning.

Too many children’s life chances are being scarred by rising poverty. Too many arrive at school not ready to learn, and too many are absent. Breakfast clubs improve behaviour, attendance, and learning. Labour will fund free breakfast clubs in every primary school, accessible to all children. Our breakfast clubs will support parents through the cost-of-living crisis. We will also bring down the cost of school by limiting the number of branded items of uniform and PE kit that schools can require.

Poor mental health is another barrier to learning. The struggle to access support is paralysing children and young people through their formative years. Labour will provide access to specialist mental health professionals in every school, so every young person has access to early support to address problems before they escalate. This will complement our plan for Young Futures Hubs, which will make sure every community has an open-access hub for children and young people with drop-in mental health support.

Chersfrozenface · 13/06/2024 13:48

TinselAngel · 13/06/2024 13:44

Nothing about the Spousal Exit Clause then.

I agree with @PronounssheRa's earlier post.

It's says

We will also modernise, simplify,
and reform the intrusive and
outdated gender recognition
law to a new process. We will
remove indignities for trans people
who deserve recognition and
acceptance

It lacks any detail and is vague enough to still include ditching the spousal exit clause.

Indeed, I strongly suspect the spousal exit clause will be considered one of the "indignities" and be done away with.

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/06/2024 13:52

TinselAngel · 13/06/2024 13:44

Nothing about the Spousal Exit Clause then.

That'll come in once they get their feet under the table, under the vague guise of 'trans rights'.

Saw this on X & it sums it up for me:

"They'll:

• Implement Cass recommendations while making it easier for children to change gender

• Support single sex 'exceptions' while removing 'indignities for trans people'

• Protect gender exploration while banning 'conversion therapy'

The vagueness is a blank cheque"

They are showing their contempt for women with this crap. And making it easier for kids to 'change gender' absolutely flies in the face of the Cass review. Dodds ignorant posts yesterday on X About conversion ban for T prompted a few people asking if she'd even read the report. I think we can surmise it's still a no. For what seems to be the entire leadership & policy development teams in Labour.

If we were back in 2019 then maybe this crap would get a pass. Now? Absolutely no chance.

saveforthat · 13/06/2024 13:53

GuessingGownaGoGo · 13/06/2024 12:13

I work with many youth services and I know for sure that many many young people have clear ideas of how they'd like the country to prioritise.
There are seventeen 16-18 yr olds in my family and circle of friends, and they are sound as a pound and more switched on than many adults.

The one's that don't have much to say on what would help the country probably won't take part - much like with the adult population.

Some of them may well have an opinion on what we should prioritise but so will some 10 year olds, should we let 10 year olds vote?

Madcats · 13/06/2024 14:04

Missing the point entirely, but has the NHS really not managed to digitise the babies' Red Books yet? They seemed old fashioned when DD(16) was born.

AIstolemylunch · 13/06/2024 14:07

I thought the same thing! I scannned my kids ones in for the vaccination records etc years ago!

Floisme · 13/06/2024 14:08

The issue for me is not how clued up or switched on some children are. The issue is that they are children.

Signalbox · 13/06/2024 14:10

The word “specialist” is so vague it’s meaningless and afaik there is no gender specialism just a bunch of charlatans following WPATH and making it up as they go along. Also according to the RCGPs GPs are specialists in general practice so it’ll probably just get offloaded onto them to deal with. More 💰💰💰 for Helen Webberley.

Cityenergy · 13/06/2024 14:12

CassieMaddox · 13/06/2024 13:42

There is only a problem if treatment for comorbid conditions, and psychological and talking therapies are included in "conversion therapy".

I can see why people are concerned due to hysterical TRA statements, but I think its an overinflated concern. Conversion therapy seeks to "erase, repress or change" someone's gender. Its not about treating comorbid conditions or offering talking therapies to explore the implications. The Labour manifesto says exploration is expressly protected.

I think its right all "conversion therapy" is banned because some of it is barbaric and if the ban was too specific then practitioners of it would be more easily able to find legal "loopholes" to carry on with it.

You mean just like the law protects women's gender critical / sex realist views but we still keep getting sacked or harassed out of jobs and the lucky few with high enough profiles can crowdfund enough for terrifyingly expensive court cases, which we win, but we still keep on getting sacked and harassed out of our jobs? You mean like that?

Given what is currently going on , what on earth makes you think TRAs will not use this as part of their harassment of anyone not toeing their line?

You are asking an awful lot of therapists to trust that TRAs will suddenly become reasonable people who respect the legal protections of others on this one issue alone.

BackToLurk · 13/06/2024 14:30

For those who aren't clear using 'single sex exceptions' without clarity is weaselly. These exceptions are the provision within the act to allow single-sex services i.e. to 'discriminate' against for example males, by providing a female only domestic violence support unit. At the moment it appears males with a GRC have access to these 'single-sex' female-only services. There is a further exception described as "exception to the general prohibition of gender reassignment discrimination in relation to the provision of separate- and single-sex services". It's this that excludes any transwoman accessing female-only services, and this that is rarely used

AstonUniRank · 13/06/2024 14:31

BackToLurk · 13/06/2024 14:30

For those who aren't clear using 'single sex exceptions' without clarity is weaselly. These exceptions are the provision within the act to allow single-sex services i.e. to 'discriminate' against for example males, by providing a female only domestic violence support unit. At the moment it appears males with a GRC have access to these 'single-sex' female-only services. There is a further exception described as "exception to the general prohibition of gender reassignment discrimination in relation to the provision of separate- and single-sex services". It's this that excludes any transwoman accessing female-only services, and this that is rarely used

I'm wondering where it's ever used? The prison guidelines in E&W, I suppose? Is there any other instance?

OP posts:
BackToLurk · 13/06/2024 14:34

AstonUniRank · 13/06/2024 14:31

I'm wondering where it's ever used? The prison guidelines in E&W, I suppose? Is there any other instance?

Some rape crisis centres use it

Floisme · 13/06/2024 14:38

'Labour is proud of our Equality Act and the rights and protections it affords women; we will continue to support the implementation of its single-sex exceptions.'

I'm quite taken aback that so far, this is the only reference I've seen to the EA and single sex exemptions. Even last week, when they hit a new low as far as I was concerned, they were talking about issuing new guidance.

ResisterRex · 13/06/2024 14:41

LGBT+ Labour is cock-a-hoop

x.com/lgbtlabour/status/1801200452446384202?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

GuessingGownaGoGo · 13/06/2024 14:46

saveforthat · 13/06/2024 13:53

Some of them may well have an opinion on what we should prioritise but so will some 10 year olds, should we let 10 year olds vote?

I support what is being proposed, and gave one of the (many) reasons why I support it.

Giving 10 year olds the vote is not being proposed.

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/06/2024 14:46

Floisme · 13/06/2024 14:38

'Labour is proud of our Equality Act and the rights and protections it affords women; we will continue to support the implementation of its single-sex exceptions.'

I'm quite taken aback that so far, this is the only reference I've seen to the EA and single sex exemptions. Even last week, when they hit a new low as far as I was concerned, they were talking about issuing new guidance.

They don't want to touch it with a barge pole so all the effort to misrepresent the EA2010 pays off for the extremists when labour make clear they think everything is peachy.

It's like the past 5/10 years has been a fevered dream they are trying to convince themselves & the electorate they don't need to bother about.

Hmm
Hepwo · 13/06/2024 14:48

The happy smiling meetings Labour had with Stonewall et al recently weren't for nothing!

And with Labour in power, public sector services will lurch further towards mixed sex only. The only defence against Labour ideology will be the SEEN groups fighting them on the ground.

SirVixofVixHall · 13/06/2024 14:49

mrshoho · 13/06/2024 12:04

From my experiences of working with and supporting 16/17 year olds plus my own kids I don't think it a good move at all!

I agree . I have a 17 year old. I don’t think 16/17 is mature enough to make a choice like this.

LakeTiticaca · 13/06/2024 14:51

Sorry I lost the will to live after the first paragraph. Protecting the rights of women and girls? Does that include the ones with a Penis?

BonifaceBonanza · 13/06/2024 14:56

I didn’t read it the same way, I read that GRC will be simplified (ie anyone can have one), and medical pathways will require specialist sign off.

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