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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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20
CantDealwithChristmas · 12/06/2024 14:24

Solrock · 12/06/2024 12:39

The Nazis weren't socialist ... but the interesting detail, which tends to get missed today, is an awful lot of the members of the Nazi party thought they were in a progressive and socialist party, despite all the evidence to the contrary (and the Nazi leadership ended up having to kill off quite a few of their gay and explicitly socialist members in the Night of Long Knives in 1934).

This ends up being one of the confusing aspects of radical politics for many people, in that the labels detach from the reality of the politics (much like the repressive and autocratic socialist countries, who call themselves "democratic" because a few party members get to vote for the politburo). So, you say you are socialist, or democratic, or whatever, but none of your actions live up to the reality of your self-identification.

They did some socialist things though e.g.

  • Nullification of the Weimar decree on private property
  • Quotas for farms and industry
  • Later, collectivisation of farms under gauleiters
  • Removing board members of private companies and turning certain companies into publicy run enterprises eg IG Farben
  • Collective responsibility for agricultural debts, again very similar to Soviet agrocultural collectivisation
  • Price fixing and production controls
  • State curbs on private sale negotiations

All of the above happened before 1937 and certainly well before the Total War footing.

I guess it comes down to how you define socialism, I define it in the Marxist-Leninist sense and the above policies fit that model.

RebelliousCow · 12/06/2024 14:30

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 11:31

This board gets framed as far right because some posters do and say far right things without much challenge from others.

See the Tommy Robinson thread.

You've yet to define what you personally mean by 'far right things'.

RebelliousCow · 12/06/2024 14:32

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 12:15

Hmm. Where did you get that list from, or did you just make it up?
Nothing like a bit of them and us stereotyping!

From her own assessment of the situation - if that is what you mean by " making it up".

RebelliousCow · 12/06/2024 14:37

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 12:31

No. Clearly not. I'm saying I think teenagers think forums are for old people and access their information in ways that are unfamiliar to us.

I'm not the person who asserted teens were getting views from 4chan and KF.

Many teenagers can no longer tell the time on a traditional clock face......I'm not sure I'm too swayed by their grasp/non grasp of important political issues

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 14:42

Underthinker · 12/06/2024 13:08

Can't be that boring to you considering how many hours you spend here under various guises.

Pardon? I've changed username once in several years 😂
Are you implying something there?

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 14:44

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 12/06/2024 13:10

It's genuinely impressive that you can be wrong so many times in one post.

The sexes are inherently distinct. This is a scientific fact and shouldn't be the basis of any political movement, because it should be accepted by everyone as uncontroversial.

You have got everything else wrong.

Tell me you don't know what gender critical means without telling me you don't know what gender critical means.

It's genuinely impressive that so many people have completely missed what I was doing. I even said I was doing it!
A pp wrote a lazy caricature of "progressives". I did the same for "modern Conservatives". As predicted pps lazy caricature is allowed to stand. Mine is challenged because people don't like lazy stereotypes, unless they are being applied to "the other side".

It's like a mini culture war in action. Fascinating really.

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 14:47

theilltemperedclavecinist · 12/06/2024 13:21

Aren't gender traditional and gender critical sort of opposites?

Traditional = gender norms are good and pure and right

Critical = gender norms are potentially oppressive and should be optional

TRA = gender norms are useful to me but don't tell me to conform to the gender norms of my birth sex or you can FRO

Yes. But the "progressive left think this" and "conservative right think that" approach demands you lump very different things together under one umbrella of stereotype.

E.g. all lefties believe Critical Race Theory when any fule no there is no unconscious bias in the UK Confused (sarcasm, in case you didn't get it)

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2024 14:51

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 14:44

It's genuinely impressive that so many people have completely missed what I was doing. I even said I was doing it!
A pp wrote a lazy caricature of "progressives". I did the same for "modern Conservatives". As predicted pps lazy caricature is allowed to stand. Mine is challenged because people don't like lazy stereotypes, unless they are being applied to "the other side".

It's like a mini culture war in action. Fascinating really.

Saying things that's probably inaccurate and wrong is not cultural a war. It's good old fashioned talking bollocks. But pretending it's substantive by using whifflewaffle.

Irony klaxon.
Boris Johnson was very good at this too!

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 14:52

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/06/2024 13:38

It's very clear that you don't want to engage with the substantive point here.

The "substantive point" appears to be another posters view that teenagers go to 4chan and KF. I disagree. I've seen no evidence of it, I've plenty of experience from parenting teens, aunty-ing teens, having friends with teens and generally being in that phase of life that teens in 2024 think reading and forums are bollocks.

I was asking if pp had evidence to back up what I believe to be an incorrect opinion. Turns out no, and neither does anyone else.

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 14:55

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2024 14:51

Saying things that's probably inaccurate and wrong is not cultural a war. It's good old fashioned talking bollocks. But pretending it's substantive by using whifflewaffle.

Irony klaxon.
Boris Johnson was very good at this too!

The "culture war" is making an argument with two black and white,polar opposite positions and turning it into a "them and us" debate. You know this, you follow politics.

The blinkers about the fact that's what the Tories have done with the GC/TRA debate is really quite entertaining. Lee Anderson even said that's what they were going to do! Yet for some reason some people can't believe that's what's happening.

It is fascinating. Like some sort of collective brainwashing.

BackToLurk · 12/06/2024 14:58

I'm not sure if it's worth noting again this far down the line that Starmer doesn't mention trans issues as part of the 'culture wars'. That came from the journalist. He's more recently used it -to paraphrase him - to suggest that culture wars become a war on culture. The examples he's used recently include Tory attacks on the RNLI, the National Trust and the BBC.

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 14:58

Here's the actual words Starmer said:
He said: “I think people are exhausted by culture wars. My clear view is that the vast majority of the public in general in the UK are reasonable, tolerant people.
“Live and let live is a very British thing, and what culture wars do is force people into taking sides that they’re not instinctively inclined to do. And it’s exhausting because you’re constantly having a battle about this and a battle about that.
“That’s why I’ve said that politics needs to tread more lightly on people’s lives.”

This thread is a case in point. A battle with "sides", about a politician daring to say its exhausting. It is totally meta. But pretty funny to read.

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 15:00

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2024 14:51

Saying things that's probably inaccurate and wrong is not cultural a war. It's good old fashioned talking bollocks. But pretending it's substantive by using whifflewaffle.

Irony klaxon.
Boris Johnson was very good at this too!

Strange you called me out on it and not the poster I was parodying. Could that be because the poster I was parodying was on your "side" and therefore you didn't notice the "whifflewhaffle" they were talking?

ResisterRex · 12/06/2024 15:02

Meta is sooo fetch

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 12/06/2024 15:04

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 14:44

It's genuinely impressive that so many people have completely missed what I was doing. I even said I was doing it!
A pp wrote a lazy caricature of "progressives". I did the same for "modern Conservatives". As predicted pps lazy caricature is allowed to stand. Mine is challenged because people don't like lazy stereotypes, unless they are being applied to "the other side".

It's like a mini culture war in action. Fascinating really.

People probably "missed" what you were doing because it was nonsense.

What you have said here is quite obviously not what gender critical people believe.

Why don't you rebut the actual criticisms made of self-styled "progressives" instead of engaging in this sort of silliness?

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2024 15:06

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 14:55

The "culture war" is making an argument with two black and white,polar opposite positions and turning it into a "them and us" debate. You know this, you follow politics.

The blinkers about the fact that's what the Tories have done with the GC/TRA debate is really quite entertaining. Lee Anderson even said that's what they were going to do! Yet for some reason some people can't believe that's what's happening.

It is fascinating. Like some sort of collective brainwashing.

Is that what it is?
Oh right.
Thanks for that.
Silly me.

So its not about authoritarianism v liberalism at all?
Its not about sources of injustice?
Its not about run away ideological campaigns that have lost touch with grass roots concerns?
Its not about top down politics being imposed rather than consensus driven politics which are more aligned and typical of the principles of liberal democracy?
Its not about incredibly incomplete and shallow understandings of complex subjects and trying to reduce them to really simple ideas which have huge gapping holes in their logic?

Hmm. Interesting.
Glad to see you have an in depth unstanding of this so you can inform us all.

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2024 15:06

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 14:55

The "culture war" is making an argument with two black and white,polar opposite positions and turning it into a "them and us" debate. You know this, you follow politics.

The blinkers about the fact that's what the Tories have done with the GC/TRA debate is really quite entertaining. Lee Anderson even said that's what they were going to do! Yet for some reason some people can't believe that's what's happening.

It is fascinating. Like some sort of collective brainwashing.

Whifflewaffle.
Brainwashing.

Toot toot.

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 15:09

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 12/06/2024 15:04

People probably "missed" what you were doing because it was nonsense.

What you have said here is quite obviously not what gender critical people believe.

Why don't you rebut the actual criticisms made of self-styled "progressives" instead of engaging in this sort of silliness?

Edited

Go back and read the PP I was responding to.

I am not "rebutting" blatantly offensive stereotypes of "the left" thanks. I'm parodying it instead to show how ridiculous it is.

You "rebut" all my points - with evidence - and answer endless questions I ask about the evidence, then I might have a go.

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 15:10

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2024 15:06

Is that what it is?
Oh right.
Thanks for that.
Silly me.

So its not about authoritarianism v liberalism at all?
Its not about sources of injustice?
Its not about run away ideological campaigns that have lost touch with grass roots concerns?
Its not about top down politics being imposed rather than consensus driven politics which are more aligned and typical of the principles of liberal democracy?
Its not about incredibly incomplete and shallow understandings of complex subjects and trying to reduce them to really simple ideas which have huge gapping holes in their logic?

Hmm. Interesting.
Glad to see you have an in depth unstanding of this so you can inform us all.

I don't know what PP was about other than lazy stereotyping of the left. The kind of stereotyping that some claim causes people to become far right, cause no one listens to them.
That apparently only works one way.

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2024 15:11

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 15:10

I don't know what PP was about other than lazy stereotyping of the left. The kind of stereotyping that some claim causes people to become far right, cause no one listens to them.
That apparently only works one way.

Toot toot

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 12/06/2024 15:11

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 15:09

Go back and read the PP I was responding to.

I am not "rebutting" blatantly offensive stereotypes of "the left" thanks. I'm parodying it instead to show how ridiculous it is.

You "rebut" all my points - with evidence - and answer endless questions I ask about the evidence, then I might have a go.

I would say that most, if not all, of that post is true.

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 15:12

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 12/06/2024 15:11

I would say that most, if not all, of that post is true.

Hah!
QED.

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 15:13

I'd say most of mine is true for the alt-right modern conservative 😉

CassieMaddox · 12/06/2024 15:14

Why don't you rebut mine? With evidence, not insults?

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 12/06/2024 15:19

What a load of meaningles waffle. He doesn’t actually say what he's going to do. He just bleats on in a bland, non-commital way, churning out vague platitudes. As usual.

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