80 new rape courts

[CassieMaddox]

Labour pledging this as part of their manifesto commitment to reduce VAWG.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/08/labour-pledges-80-new-courts-in-bid-to-tackle-backlog-crisis

So pleased to see an actual tangible action targeted at something that will help women. I'm looking forward to seeing what else is in their manifesto now.

Wel, those NI cuts of around £31 billion would help wouldn't they?

Other countries do not have 2 or 3 year waits for a trial, so why do we put up with this?

Nope, all you ve done is say Labours plans are not workable, just a string of negative comments.

So do nothing, i ve not misrepresented you or others at all.

6% convicted in 2010

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2010/mar/15/rape-conviction-rates-solicitor-general

Handy graph showing the collapse in prosecutions in here

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48095118.amp

Same reason we put up with everything else? I’m not saying the money shouldn’t be invested it absolutely should. But people need to manage their expectations based on unsolvable limitations.

An efficient court service means rape victims aren't waiting for years for their case to be heard, with all the attendant stress of that. It also means that potentially innocent men aren't waiting years with a crime hanging over their head.

Many victims drop out because the process takes so long. Many are put off reporting in the first place.

I would far rather have a government that spent money on resolving the long waits for rape trials, than on deporting a handful of asylum seekers to Rwanda. Elections are where we get to make those choices.

You clearly articulate some of the ways it can improve the quality of evidence, though there’s also minimizing the loss of evidence through error or death.

I didn’t say it was a magic a bullet. I don’t think there are magic bullets. I think there are hundreds and hundreds of things that need to be improved in the entire processing of a rape complaint in order to improve justice. Timely trials is one of them so I’m pleased to see a proposal to improve that.

The thing I particularly like about it is that if implemented it would have a massive positive impact, well beyond any small improvement in number of convictions, on those victims whose cases do go to court.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

I agree but as I said people need to manage their expectations and frankly, be better informed. A lot of these wild accusations are almost painful to listen to. And so untrue it’s 😱😱

People clearly taking sound bites and emotions and thinking they’re an argument.

You used hyperbole by implying the previous poster’s characterisation of rape as decriminalised because so few rapists get convicted would lead to kangaroo courts.

Women’s groups have been campaigning along these lines for years, we have yet to see a massive increase in unsafe convictions or any movement towards kangaroo courts.

We have to start with the Police, first and foremost. A case will never get anywhere near a Court unless the necessary evidence is gathered. Then of course the CPS will decide if there is a reasonable likelihood of conviction. So many hurdles to jump through for the victim. 😟

What evidence do you think isn’t being gathered?

Is it not hyperbole to say it’s decriminalised when the law clearly states otherwise? But that’s ok, is it? Women’s groups aren’t legal, they’re not involved in the process, their only function is to push a certain direction that is in some aspects impractical.

What you have to understand is that victims’ rights groups only function are to push the needs of the victims. Which in many cases simply aren’t enforceable.

Take the NHS. As a service user who has had a bad experience with (for instance), a minor operation. I could complain that the operation was too long, that I was on a shared ward afterwards. However the fact is you can’t rush surgery and unfortunately it’s completely unachievable to restructure every hospital so every patient has a private room. What the victim wants is very different to what is workable in the system, because they’re seeing it from one angle and are not involved in the others.

As I said, the court system needs improving. We need more staff in every area of the justice system. These cases should be dealt with in a more timely manner. And while the conviction rate can be improved, the nature of these cases means the conviction rate (taking into account all complaints) will basically always be low compared to other offences where the evidence is much stronger.

Blaming this on a lack of will, or because rape is treated with disdain, is very very very unfair. Please try harder to understand the real issues and constraints in the system.

Talk about defending the indefensible!!!

Whatever the issues with evidence etc there is no reason why cases should take 3 years to go to trial.

Thats down to many years of underfunding of the justice system by the Tories.

Now we have a party that plans on improving things but thats not good enough either.

I'm not bothering any more to be honest.
The whole line of argument appears to be boiling down to many posters are happy with the statis quo
Bit strange on a "feminist" board but there you go.

I have no interest in "trying to understand" a position that thinks long wants for court cases and 98% of rapists walking free is tolerable.

I said on the Tommy Robinson thread about healthy boundaries. One of my boundaries is not engaging with people who prioritise everything else over rape victims.

You’re woefully under informed, fired up on sound bites and it shows, to be honest.

Your position is damaging to women. Wilful ignorance and sound bites. No desire to understand the system, over simplification and a need to feel righteous. So the feeling is mutual!

My point was that you accused someone of using hyperbole and then used it yourself.

But no, I don’t think something being on the statute books automatically makes an assertion that it is decriminalised hyperbole if the law is not or cannot be enforce. Public policy is created by practice as well as declaration.

Whether a 2% conviction rate of reported rapes (and way less of actual rapes) is an appropriate measure of it being decriminalised is a more complex question, though.

You ve no argument, so are now resorting to insults.... a common tactic but one increasingly rejected by the electorate.

I know where i'd rather be on this..... & its not where you are, defending the current position.

No argument? I’ve written large, carefully explained posts as to why the conviction rate will likely always be low in spite of any measures we put in place. You haven’t responded to any of it. Just ‘attack the person’ because it’s ‘wrongthink’. You have zero professional knowledge and it shows - all you can do is slander people and ascribe views to them they do not hold. The tactics of male right activists, ironically.

Blaming this on a lack of will, or because rape is treated with disdain, is very very very unfair. Please try harder to understand the real issues and constraints in the system.

It’s not unfair to blame it on a lack of will. Rape as a criminal issue does not attract the funding or attention from leadership needed to make prosecution more effective. It could, though would take time. It is a lack of political will that means it doesn’t.

My last comment as I’ve said everything I need to say, and if people choose not to read it that isn’t my problem. What I will say is that we will revisit this thread in 4 years time and the conviction rate will not be radically different to what it is now, even under a Labour government (which many posters irrationally see as a fixer in all this). 🤷🏼‍♀️ Certain improvements can be made but there are limitations that cannot be overcome.

I hope people will read my posts and try to understand them rather than making lazy accusations and shooting the messenger.

But that's what happening now from Labour with this policy, isn't it?

And the first hand experiences that some on this thread have had working with Keir Starmer show that he has good form on this issue - from GC5 earlier in this thread:

"When KS was the DPP, he was the first and only DPP (at least in my lifetime) to do a thorough investigation into falling rape convictions and to widely consult on what the problems were from various experts and those with a lot of experience of the system - including with victims of rape who had been failed by the CPS.

He implemented a new approach to rape cases and for the first time rape convictions (at least those which got to the CPS) started going up. (Many of these reforms were reversed by his successor and we’ve seen what’s happened since…)

This was all while being forced by the MOJ to cut the CPS budget by Cameron’s government. KS truly prioritised VAWG. How do I know all this? I was one of the people consulted."

Plus, unless you think the conviction rate of all complaints received should be 100%, ‘98% of rapists walking free’ is completely incorrect. Please be precise and factual, you’re giving away your complete lack of knowledge in this matter.