Millions of men in England and Wales pose a danger to women and children

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

The title is a quote from
the article https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/04/met-chief-says-millions-of-men-are-danger-to-women-and-girls-in-england-and-wales

and yet still so many people want yo make it easier for men to access women’s spaces

This should be on the main board. So many people think it’s ok.

National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) analysis at the recent National Policing Board suggests that one in 10 people in England and Wales are a victim of VAWG [violence against women and girls], with around four million (approximately one in 15) people being perpetrators.”

… but actually given that it is mostly men, it means about one man in eight commits VAWG

That's a bit simplistic with numbers, for instance if a man is violent towards his wife, he will likely also be violent to his children. So 3 victims to 1 man, and we also know that this men go on to be violent to other partners too.

Austerity helps perpetrators.

Of course the perpetrator is the one who ultimately chooses to commit VAWG, but austerity provides them with the opportunity to do it and do it more often. Many services have had funding cuts, there's an affordable housing shortage, child support system isn't as effective as it should be.

The only way to address the issue and to keep women and children safe is by funding good public services, more social housing, supportive benefits system, and improved child support system.

one in 10 people in England and Wales are a victim of VAWG [violence against women and girls]

By definition, only half the population - women and girls -can be victims of VAWG. So do they mean that 1 in 5 women and girls are victims? Or is this like that daft statistic about 1 in 4 people not attending a smear test?

Millions are yes and millions more are not.

Those men aren't likely to attack you in a busy changing room. These men are usually your husband's, fathers, siblings etc
That are invited into homes and safe spaces ...

Yet transwomen have been caught abusing women in single sex spaces. Why make it easier for violent males to access their victims?

Do you take down all fencing from a chicken coop because a fox got in or do you put more barriers in place to stop it happening again?

The figure of 4 million, mainly male, offenders comes from research to be published later this year that was commissioned by the National Police Chiefs’ Council

Not much to check as the referenced report is to be published at an undefined time in the future. If the report is complete enough to go public with the findings then why not release it now so the underlying data can be understood?

So if its 1 in 15 PEOPLE who are committing these crimes would that mean 1 in 7 men or did they mean 1 in 15 men (instead of people)?
Having done the ruff sums 4 million dangerous men in England and Wales would work out at ruffly 1 in 7 if there's about 30 million men in E&W. Hmm I guess 1 in7 sounds to bad so they added women to make the numbers look better, I guess we have a new response to not all men, just 1in7

Most of these are men who you are married to or living with. This isn’t a trans issue. It’s a male violence issue

It’s a male violence issue

In part. It's also an austerity issue, because that (massively) helps perpetrators do what they do.

Yes, @Aussieland, we know it's a male violence problem. But transwomen are male.

So that's not overly helpful, is it?

In the UK coercive control is recognised as a form of abuse. I'm sketchy on the overlap with violence. Transwidows' thread is an insight into the harm of coercion and control.

I could do with seeing more detail. I remember how eye-opening it was to see that above a certain age, the deaths of older women were not necessarily counted in femicide statistics until comparatively recently.

And yet men who say they are women in jail are there for sexual offences at three times the rate of men who don't say they are women. So it is definitely a 'trans' issue.

https://bylinetimes.com/2022/12/13/more-men-are-killed-in-households-each-year-than-women/

Interesting Read

Yes. And many trans people are male.

That would be men killing men.
We are talking about the sexual assaults, rape and domestic violence committed by men against women and girls, perhaps you should start a different thread to discuss male on male violence

The point is that the womens movement has done a very good job in highlighting the issue of male on female - or child violence.

BUT we havnt looked at the subject in the round, that is to say male on male violence or for that matter the role of women in violence either as perpetrators or facilitators.

When we have some idea of the problem in total the question is then what do we do to tackle it, how do we stop people becoming violent, what do we do to perpetrators, to prevent them reoffending or if that doesnt work or seem likley to work to safeguard potential future victims

It's a fair point that, as it says, there needs to be more awareness and addressing of violence against men by men

Obviously both VAWG and violence against men by men are strongly linked to austerity. Funding cuts to public services, punitive benefits system, lack of social housing, all aid in-the-home violence and homicides.

I disagree - there is a link. The article says "men" but then says the age isn't clear in statistics so it will include boys not just men. Unsurprising because men often kill their children as well as the mother, or instead of the mother to punish her. Or they are physically violent towards children around the mother. Or she is afraid to leave because she won't be able to protect them. Or she does and the father is violent but she gets accused of parental alienation and he gets custody. Or because sons witness violence in the home and are violent towards each other as they grow.
The article felt somewhat illogical though. It argued that "if we want to address male violence against women we need to address male violence against men." But failed to consider that if that were true then the reverse is actually more true. (Because half of children are male, because domestic abusers will often kill their ex and the new partner if she moves on, because domestic abusers will kill male family members trying to help the woman). Tackling violence against women would reduce male-on-male violence but the article never makes that connection.
And its odd because feminist campaigns against domestic violence have usually included children of both sexes when they campaign against DV. So women are already aware of the link. I wish sometimes the men who ask "what about male on male violence" would talk to women/listen to women more. We might actually get something done.

When we have some idea of the problem in total the question is then what do we do to tackle it, how do we stop people becoming violent, what do we do to perpetrators, to prevent them reoffending or if that doesnt work or seem likley to work to safeguard potential future victims

How to address? Better and well-funded public services, supportive benefits system, more social housing, and work education and training opportunities.

@anothernamitynamenamechange The link talks about men being killed by brothers, sons, fathers, and friends and acquaintances in a home setting.

So you start of talking about male-on-male violence but then you immediately want to talk about women as perpetrators of violence. There are female perpetrators, and that's a bad thing, but as the article you linked said the vast majority of male murder victims are murdered by other men and it needs to be talked about more. By talking about women instead. Hmmmm.

Well, fathers, husbands, brothers etc are also out and about. They are in the house. Then they go outside the house into the street and possibly into other buildings and toilets etc. Like women do. So I don't see your point.

And I am not concerned about the millions that don't pose a risk. Good for them. I am concerned about the millions that do.

''Men and violence against women: Some men think that if they themselves are not perpetrating domestic or sexual violence against women, the problem has nothing to do with them. But it does.''

''A consistent predictor of men’s use of domestic and sexual violence is their perception of peer support: the extent to which they think that the men around them condone, support, and themselves use violence against women.
Male peer support is a key risk factor for perpetration.''

https://archive.ph/UiBd7