Victoria McCloud Telegraph Article

[Nomnomnew]

Name changed for this. I have just seen a post on LinkedIn from Victoria McCloud referring to an interview in the telegraph. I can’t believe this claim/ quote from the former judge:

‘Speaking to The Telegraph after her Financial interview, she said: “As an anatomical, endocrinological and legal woman whose birth registration is female, I am as at risk of rape and assault as any woman and efforts to place me in isolation in hospital or force me to use male spaces are no more than blind prejudice.”’

I find it exceptionally offensive that a trans woman would claim such a thing - as if rapists are checking birth certificates/ GRCs! The mind boggles that anyone would think this is an appropriate thing to say/ claim.

The full article is here, though paywalled.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/03/first-transgender-judge-hits-out-trans-hostile-conspiracy/

As much at risk because heterosexual men (the majority of men) do not differentiate between legal 'women' and biological women in rape or sexual relations generally? This seems unlikely. I realise many men are ignorant about female anatomy but assume they can tell the difference and it's a meaningful difference from the male pov.

‘Speaking to The Telegraph after her Financial interview, she said: “As an anatomical, endocrinological and legal woman whose birth registration is female, I am as at risk of rape and assault as any woman and efforts to place me in isolation in hospital or force me to use male spaces are no more than blind prejudice.”’

Nah mate, you're just chatting shit now.

Apart from anything else I'm pretty sure loads of women would be more than happy to have their own room ("isolation") during a hospital stay. The fact you you want to get yourself onto the ward with woman says it all really.

As a biologist, I would argue Mc Cloud’s anatomy and endocrinology are male.

The only point that's accurate is that due to the fudge that is the GRA, McCloud has the benefit of a legal fiction that requires organisations to treat him as if he was a woman. Although even then, the Equality Act allows for exemptions to that.

The birth certificate was altered to indicate the legal fiction allowed by the GRA.

Nothing about McCloud's anatomy is female, and nothing about McCloud's endocrine system is female. It's such a huge amount of wish-fulfilling role playing.

Claims to 'feel' like a woman, yet entirely unable to 'think' like one. Male entitlement still intact - that's the problem. They haven't yet figured out a way to remove it and until they do, men will be men.

I find these claims quite worrying . We can dismiss IW’s claims to be a biological woman but coming from a very successful lawyer who calls themself an “anatomical and endocrinological” woman is this the first steps towards challenging the wording of any new legislation or guidelines? If the Equality Act were to be clarified as per the Tory proposal there would have to be great care taken to define a woman as someone born female.

Anatomy is more than genitals and breasts. Even if we were to imagine that a neo-vagina is the equivalent of a vagina, then McCloud still has a body that is unmistakably male, visible from hips, pelvis, shoulders etc. Yes, hormones have an impact on skin and fat distribution but any medical interventions McCloud has taken cannot make McCloud female. I do feel sorry for such people as they have been promised the impossible by unscrupulous medics.

A menopausal woman who takes HRT will also have smoother skin and so on but HRT will never turn her into a pre-menopausal woman, with regular periods and reversing all the other changes of menopause. Perhaps that’s one way of thinking about it. We can tinker with Mother Nature, we cannot defeat her.

an anatomical, endocrinological and legal woman

But that is just simply not true. Transwomen are not anatomically or endocrinologically women.

Very worrying that a judge, someone who’s been given so much power and authority over other people’s lives, can make such a statement. Or hold such a belief.

I haven't read the article.
Assuming that the judge is saying that effectively they are female by most of the recognised markers - legal documents, hormones, altered anatomy - they are now more likely to be perceived as female (or trans) by a male aggressor and thus at risk. It would therefore be wrong for them, in the event of being attacked, to then be treated as male.
Fair enough. I don't think many of the women calling for single sex facilities to be respected are asking that transwomen received inhumane treatment.
But it's the narrative disconnect again.
Some services do need to gatekeep for only women in a way that excludes transwomen. But not all. And there should be equivalent services available for all sexes/genders.

Men are normally excluded from places where women are particularly vulnerable, not because all men are dangerous but because some are, and no one can tell in advance which ones will offend.

A male can assault women without using his penis. So having it removed does not excuse him from the rules governing all other adult males.

What a massive transphobe! Claiming passing privilege. Ignoring the case law that says it's a human rights abuse to force someone to have fertility-damaging treatment in order to be treated as a legal female. And yet VM would be outraged if we excluded VM for having been through male puberty, and only allowed in Jazz Jennings.

True, some men will rape anything other men and transwomen. Why is VM making this my problem, now?

Edited for misgendering 😳

Me, me, me! I want, I want, I want!

Just because a male person has chosen to make extreme modifications to their body does not make them ‘just as much as a target for rape’. If this has been documented, why can’t we find that information? This is an unevidenced, emotionally manipulative tactic.

And if this is true and not a sleight of hand using flawed logic, female people are not a shield, nor a therapeutic resource for male people’s use. Our presence in the facilities they use is not their right to demand.

It all comes down to, this is a male person who cannot respect that female people have the need and the right to dignity and privacy away all male people.

This judge now comes across as a male person deeply enraged that just because this male person said ‘I am a female and demand to be treated as a female’ and is being met with the fact that you cannot change material reality. And the world doesn’t need to comply with the demands of your philosophical belief.

I said on the other thread. Either this judge never was the balanced opinion some reported they were. Or this has developed over time until they couldn’t hide it any more.

The things this person is now saying in media has taking seething tone of the usual entitled male with this identity. It is just one more example of the lack of stability and the lack of respect towards female people that is building. I am sure there are plenty of trans people who really are respectful of female people as we are told they are out there. But I wish they would speak up to counter the prevailing trend.

This male person is yet another who is in no way ‘most marginalised and most vulnerable.

McCloud follows the pattern we have seen on here sometimes. They seem to be trying to be seen as the reasonable male trans person.

But operation: Let them speak always shows them up to being just like the others. Even to the point of them saying some male people are not ‘true trans’ like them. In fact, when I read McCloud’s stuff, it really seems to fit a few posters we have had on this board over the past couple
of years. I wonder if they came and tested the waters? or whether the pattern is common.

When, I hope after a long life, the judge dies and is buried, should their bones be unearthed in ten, a hundred or a thousand years the skeleton will be then, as it is now, unmistakably male.

To put it realistically: when I was thinner, younger and curvy, I could not even walk from the bus stop in town to home without cars beeping and men winding down the window. This has happened as a woman and a child, especially if I was in school uniform. In year 8/9 a man in a dress used to jump out of the bushes and ‘pleasure himself’.

As a young woman I was groped in the workplace. If I see the potential for this happening at office parties I will make sure the young woman is ok and on one occasion, act as a barrier. Funny that now I am older, less attractive and higher up the career ladder, it is less of a risk.

Dh was ??? when he stopped to talk to someone, and our dd carried on walking along the main road because he didn’t, at first, get why cars were beeping. Furious when he realised. Same old.

McCloud does not have the same risk as assault as ‘any woman’ and it is scary that a judge thinks so.

This is your brain on genderism though...see also if you spend your time at malaga airport

whose birth registration is female

Is there anything these people won't lie about.

It is worrying that someone capable of such a patently obviously objectively incorrect statement was a judge. They are supposed to be nitpickingly factual, aren't they? Epic fail here, on something as basic as their own anatomy and endocrinology.

THE PARTY SEEKS
POWER ENTIRELY FOR
ITS OWN SAKE. WE
ARE NOT INTERESTED
IN THE GOOD OF
OTHERS: WE ARE
INTERESTED SOLELY
IN POWER, PURE
POWER.

Men that attempt to emulate women (for whatever reason) are at a higher risk from male violence than other men, when other factors such as age are accounted for. That is a problem that men need to address. Women cannot address that for them. Women have their own issues with male violence.

maybe we could have helped, if they had asked nicely.

And it would have been helpful if the doctors performing the body modifications had made sure that the patients were fully informed of the consequences before performing surgeries and dishing out steroids.

Most Telegraph articles have comments open - I wonder why this one doesn't?

I am yet to see any take up of the campaign for male people to be more welcoming to all male people in male toilets in reaction to all these reports that male trans people feel unsafe. Or they may be being assaulted in the male toilets and not reporting these.

Fionne's campaign never really got the support it needed by male people. And yet, if the campaign was started by Stonewall, it would have success and would cover ALL male people's needs.

I find the lack of such campaigns is getting more and more likely an indication that the safety issue is being over exaggerated for emotional manipulation purposes. And in doing so, allows these male people to completely override any privacy and dignity needs of female people.

It seems to be completely dishonest. Yet, we have seen it all too often. And when it pops up here on threads, we are then told by posters that we are mistreating those male people in bluntly stating our needs and boundaries. We are shamed by posters who think we should accept the blatant misogyny of these male posters to allow the dialogue to happen. Which has the effect of telling women to accept misogynistic abuse to let a male person speak.

That is what McCloud has been doing in these interviews lately. Why should we believe that this person was fit to be a judge? McCloud does not recognise their own abuse of female people in the statements that McCloud makes.

👏

I 100% accept that a man who has replaced his penis with a surgically created neo genital orifice is more at risk than other men from certain men in certain situations. I'll even allow this gives him something in common with women.

It in no way makes him actually a woman, nor does it follow that the natural solution to his problems is to use the protections and resources of women.

McCloud claims that he is a woman because he now has a body cavity. He thinks this cavity is akin to a vagina.

It's not, mate. And it's fucking offensive of you to claim that you have the first idea of what it is to be a woman, or that a male body with a surgically created orifice is somehow 'female'.