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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ask your general election candidates what a woman is: results

109 replies

generalelectionfish · 01/06/2024 09:58

I have decided to ask all major parties in my constituency how they define a woman, particularly with regard to women in sport and prisons.

My constituency (currently, subject to borders changing) is Aylesbury Vale.

Conservative: Rob Butler - no reply. This doesn't surprise me because he's a useless tosser who only ever turns up to stuff being opened and has never answered a single email I have sent.

Labour: Laura Kyrke-Smith - replied! She says, "I define a woman as someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as a woman.
This piece by Annelise Dodds is a good summary of where Labour stands on trans rights more broadly."

Weasel words in my opinion, but useful to know where she stands. We are a (ugh) Tory safe seat here, but if anyone can challenge it, it would only be Labour.

Anyone else have any assurances or otherwise from their local candidates - and where are you (if you are happy saying)?

Labour will lead on reform of transgender rights – and we won’t take lectures from the Tories | Anneliese Dodds

We will modernise, simplify and reform gender recognition law. Our policies won’t please everyone but we will do what’s right

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/24/labour-will-lead-on-reform-of-transgender-rights-and-we-wont-take-lectures-from-the-divisive-tories

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generalelectionfish · 21/06/2024 18:03

Lovelyview · 21/06/2024 13:13

I'm girding myself to contact my labour candidate again as he hasn't replied to my previous two emails 😡. I feel like Wes Streeting gets it and Keir Starmer doesn't. If my labour candidate gets back to me I'll base my vote on what he says, if not it'll be a spoiled ballot paper. There is a Transform candidate who I might contact to see what she says although her website says they are against both homophobia and transphobia so I'm not sure anyone has thought very much about it. No independents. No SDP.

Wes Streeting used to be my MP when we lived in Ilford.

He comes across well, but I do get the sense that he'll say whatever he needs to in order to curry favour - his opinions change with the wind.

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Lovelyview · 21/06/2024 18:27

generalelectionfish · 21/06/2024 18:03

Wes Streeting used to be my MP when we lived in Ilford.

He comes across well, but I do get the sense that he'll say whatever he needs to in order to curry favour - his opinions change with the wind.

Yes, I've heard that. At least he has come out and said something though. I'm quite surprised that my local candidate can't be arsed to reply. My question was fairly Terfy so perhaps he's a Trans ally who knows I'm a lost cause.

generalelectionfish · 25/06/2024 10:18

So, my constituency boundaries have changed after some heavy-handed gerrymandering, meaning the Labour candidate I originally approached is not actually standing in my constituency.

Instead, I had this reply from Carissma Griffiths. It's promising, if slightly weak in what she's willing to commit to paper.

"For me personally, I define a woman as someone with an XX chromosome, but as I said that is me.

Unfortunately I am unable to go into too much detail as there is so much on this subject to just write about and sometimes what I say being taken out of context or misconstrued."

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pastaandpesto · 25/06/2024 10:22

We are in a safe but seemingly not invincible Tory seat. I received the following reply from our Labour candidate and almost fell off my chair.

"There are two sexes which are observed, not assigned at birth. Very rare chromosomal abnormalities do not change this basic fact of biology. One may not change one’s sex. Gender is a social construct and changes over time and between societies. The two should not be used interchangeably.

I feel very strongly that the inclusion of trans athletes in women’s sport is wrong. A male bodied person should not be able to use women’s changing spaces. Women’s services like prisons, counselling services, hostels etc. should be for women only.

The equality act should make very clear that ‘woman’ and ‘girl’ are biological categories that must be protected if they are to have any meaning.

Freedom of speech is critical. Throughout history, men have made demands of women, and when women do not meet these demands, men resort to violence and threats. His is misogyny. My position on the ‘trans debate’ has been evolving over time. It was a website called ‘terf is a slur’ which really cemented my position. Page after page of the most horrible language, often violent and of a sexual nature directed against women merely for expressing an opinion. Add in assaults against women, women losing their jobs and reputations. I’ve always been a feminist. I simply can’t stand on the side of those who abuse and threaten women for exercising their right to free speech.

I’ll be happy to meet with gender critical groups.

Young children don’t need trans education. They certainly shouldn’t be encouraged to go behind their parent’s back!

I recognise the right of transgender people to live in freedom. I certainly don’t hate trans people. I recognise the cynical moral panic being spread by very unpleasant elements of the right.

Speaking to friends and family, many people in Labour feel the same way I do. People are worried about being seen to be a bigot or far right. People want to be understanding and supportive of minority groups. I feel like we are turning a corner though. People are waking up to some of the more unpleasant elements within trans activism. A more balanced debate is going to emerge I believe.

If sex is fixed, but gender is constructed, surely the more progressive thing to do is to challenge what it means to be a ‘man’ rather than pretend that a man can be a woman and vice versa.

Finally, Labour’s manifesto was released yesterday. I hope you will agree that it balances the rights of trans people and women. We pledged to protect single sex spaces, retain the need for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a qualified doctor before being issued a gender recognition certificate and implement the findings of the Cass report."

SinnerBoy · 25/06/2024 11:06

Wow! Was that a woman, or a man?

NoBinturongsHereMate · 25/06/2024 11:19

And do they post here, or just lurk attentively?

pastaandpesto · 25/06/2024 11:22

SinnerBoy · 25/06/2024 11:06

Wow! Was that a woman, or a man?

A man. I don't really want to name him - it was a candid response in a one-to-one communication so it would feel wrong to put his name to it publicly. He's not high profile.

Chersfrozenface · 25/06/2024 11:44

pastaandpesto · 25/06/2024 11:22

A man. I don't really want to name him - it was a candid response in a one-to-one communication so it would feel wrong to put his name to it publicly. He's not high profile.

Has he read what Bridget Phillipson has said?

PepeParapluie · 25/06/2024 11:58

pastaandpesto · 25/06/2024 11:22

A man. I don't really want to name him - it was a candid response in a one-to-one communication so it would feel wrong to put his name to it publicly. He's not high profile.

Wow, what a response! Very unexpected. At least the whole party isn’t entirely captured, even if the ones in the public eye seem completely captured.

pastaandpesto · 25/06/2024 11:59

Chersfrozenface · 25/06/2024 11:44

Has he read what Bridget Phillipson has said?

Indeed. I've no idea.

Zippedeedooda · 25/06/2024 12:23

pastaandpesto · 25/06/2024 11:59

Indeed. I've no idea.

She said
Trans rights trump woman’s rights on the radio this morning.

What a Labour candidate is prepared to say to someone on the doorstep to get a vote is not what is being said publicly.
Sounds like someone desperate for a job come July

generalelectionfish · 25/06/2024 16:55

From the sense I get, a lot of Labour candidates know that a woman is born, not manufactured or imitated. But it's somehow "toxic" to say it, so they don't. Because they're politicians. Believing it themselves is the first step though. What they actually do with that belief... well, I'm not sure how many politicians will stick their neck out on behalf of anyone else.

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SavingTheBestTillLast · 25/06/2024 20:18

Labour called today. They weren’t actually going to ring the bell just stuff a leaflet through the door but I was painting the other side of the front door at the time so gave him something of a shock.

Don’t think he intended to have to speak to anyone but I recognised him as our candidate so
He asked if Labour would have our support and I said I was undecided ( a lie ) and wanted to know his and Labours thoughts re biological women and girls ( can’t believe I have to call us that these days ) safety and protections in terms of sports, work, refuges, changing spaces, safe spaces etc etc and how they propose to deal with trans women overtaking these.

He said
There are a lot of issues Labour are interested in and currently he’d love to discuss housing 🤯🤯🤯. Which is hilarious as we live in an area currently at war with all the new housing and lack of infrastructure and are desperately trying to protect what little farmland and green belt is here! He couldn’t have picked a worse discussion to have with me being an architect aswell.
After complete exhaustion on both sides over that he made to turn and leave and I asked again about women but he walked too fast away from me only to get cornered by my neighbour opposite pruning the blackberry bushes ( subterfuge I think ) and she launched into the same question for which he said ‘ I’ve just had a long conversation about this with your neighbour’ and got in his car!!! And drove off!!

So nothing! Too scared to say so obviously there’s no protection in the pipeline and it is just as the interview with Labour on the radio this morning said. Trans rights trump womens rights.

My Libdem said they aligned with Labours view but even they couldn’t clarify what that is and the Independent who I met at an event said it wasn’t a matter they would rock the boat over.

🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
I can see women chained to the Parliament railings when / if Labour get in and they’ll still ignore us.
Labours women have to be Seen and Not Heard.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 25/06/2024 20:30

Excellent ambushing by your neighbour.

SavingTheBestTillLast · 25/06/2024 20:37

NoBinturongsHereMate · 25/06/2024 20:30

Excellent ambushing by your neighbour.

🤣🤣
we stand together……so proud 😁

PepeParapluie · 25/06/2024 21:05

@SavingTheBestTillLast that is so frustrating! But I guess if he’s too cowardly to answer the question to two constituents, he’s clearly going to be too cowardly to stand up for women if elected, especially if it means going against his party line.

SavingTheBestTillLast · 25/06/2024 21:17

PepeParapluie · 25/06/2024 21:05

@SavingTheBestTillLast that is so frustrating! But I guess if he’s too cowardly to answer the question to two constituents, he’s clearly going to be too cowardly to stand up for women if elected, especially if it means going against his party line.

Yes that’s what we thought.
And we didn’t look scarey………honest ☺️

TWETMIRF · 25/06/2024 22:01

Women that have the temerity to expect women to be seen as real people with real needs are scary to Labour. They can only cope with the ones that prioritise the penis people

Calling · 01/07/2024 20:54

My Labour candidate said that a woman is defined by how they feel.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 01/07/2024 21:49

I mostly feel furious. Is that womanly?

JanesLittleGirl · 01/07/2024 22:07

NoBinturongsHereMate · 01/07/2024 21:49

I mostly feel furious. Is that womanly?

No, that is not womanly. You should feel a little bit worried and seek guidance from a close male family member.

PigWhisperer · 02/07/2024 10:59

So, 2 days to go. I live in what was a Tory safe seat but because of an awful MP and boundary changes then Labour are in with a chance.

The more I think about it the more I have no idea what I'm going to do. Anyone else?

notsofantastic · 02/07/2024 11:04

I emailed everyone too. Fantastic and immediate answer from the Conservative, dreadful answer from the Lib Dem and nothing from the other five. It's probably neck and neck here between Conservative and Lib Dem.

quixote9 · 02/07/2024 13:57

The part missing from "define a woman" is "which 'woman'?"

It really only applies to males identifying as women. Biological women are defined as women with great consistency and don't get to define as anything else when it would be to their advantage. No rapist ever steps back and says "Oh, sorry, my mistake. Didn't realize you identified as a man." Promotions aren't suddenly handed to women because they've had enough of being overlooked and IDed as men. Nor, as in the gallows humour cartoon, would a witch set to be burned at the stake achieve a reprieve by saying, "No! Wait! You're making a terrible mistake!"

The problem lies not in the woman involved. It lies in everybody around her who treats women badly and knows exactly what they are without ever needing to define the word.

In situations where sex puts women at a disadvantage, it's a bit idiotic to pretend that the people causing the problem will stop because somebody else redefined "women."

redsplodge · 02/07/2024 14:51

Still no response from any other candidates, despite me sending a follow up email. I did catch some local LibDems councillors in town this morning and mentioned the lack of response from the candidate. I asked them whether she was of the opinion that single sex spaces and services should be determined by biological sex, adding that I knew what LibDem policy was. The male councillor said as far as he knew she was aligned with party policy. Could've sworn the female councillor gave me a sympathetic look as I left - I previously spoke to her on the doorstep during local elections and got the distinct impression she was not fully aligned with national LibDem policy.