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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Inaccurate BBC story - Trans identified male

253 replies

WineIsMyCarb · 01/06/2024 07:14

Bbc Sussex has described trans identified male murderer as 'woman' throughout story, with no reference at all to his sex or trans identity.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp00de3r3qro

If you wish to complain about this inaccurate reporting of a male's violent crime, the bbc's complaints link is here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints

Andrew Rowland-Stuart, who died at his home on 27 May, smiling, wearing a grey t-shirt and grey waistcoat

Brighton: Woman, 70, in court over husband's death

Emergency services were called to a flat where the victim was pronounced dead, police say.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp00de3r3qro

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
AmaryllisNightAndDay · 19/07/2024 09:55

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 09:40

Eh? Are you saying women can't use swords?

No, unless I am much mistaken she is saying women don't use swords etc. But men do.

Do you not value facts and evidence of what people do, over speculation about what they might be capable of doing?

In the unusual case that a woman did kill a man with a sword, that arouses public interest. And this report gave a false impression that women not only can but do. Hence the need to check facts.

(Do we really have to explain this?)

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 09:58

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 19/07/2024 09:55

No, unless I am much mistaken she is saying women don't use swords etc. But men do.

Do you not value facts and evidence of what people do, over speculation about what they might be capable of doing?

In the unusual case that a woman did kill a man with a sword, that arouses public interest. And this report gave a false impression that women not only can but do. Hence the need to check facts.

(Do we really have to explain this?)

I'm the reporter who found out it was a samurai sword! I'm also the only reporter to go against the police report on the sex of the defendant.
You're literally quoting my own work back at me.

OldCrone · 19/07/2024 10:03

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 09:38

It's been postponed. I checked yesterday which is why I'm not there today.
As I've tried to explain, it's not an error when the information comes from a trusted source. I can't account for decisions made after.

If the information is wrong, it is an error, by definition, and the source has brought its trustworthy status into question.

If a source persistently provides misinformation, their status as trustworthy should be reviewed.

This is precisely why we don't trust the BBC to correctly report the sex of male criminals who claim to "identify as women".

The BBC isn't just a passive conduit for press releases. It is an active participant in misinforming the public about the sex of some criminals.

dessyh · 19/07/2024 10:04

You're being rude now Barry 'Christ on a bike' treating people like they are thick because you're not explaining yourself properly.

You say there's no interest in reporting domestic murders, I show you how there is and then you make opaque comments about releases being free. Like we know you don't work for the bbc, you keep saying, then make statements about how they work. Then when proved wrong (bbc clearly interested in domestic murder stories) you repeat you don't work for them.

OldCrone · 19/07/2024 10:04

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 09:54

Yes. This is how I make my living.

I presume you're not going to tell us.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/07/2024 10:05

We appreciate your work. There is more gold in them there hills! Keep digging on this issue, it will provide endless copy. Just understand that we have reason to be frustrated about the BBC which even lies when the facts are known, for eg Scarlett Blake.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/07/2024 10:06

If the information is wrong, it is an error, by definition, and the source has brought its trustworthy status into question.

If a source persistently provides misinformation, their status as trustworthy should be reviewed.

This is precisely why we don't trust the BBC to correctly report the sex of male criminals who claim to "identify as women".

The BBC isn't just a passive conduit for press releases. It is an active participant in misinforming the public about the sex of some criminals.

This.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/07/2024 10:08

It goes without saying that we absolutely cannot trust police forces to tell the truth. They are thoroughly captured by gender identity ideology.

OldCrone · 19/07/2024 10:09

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 09:52

Christ on a bike. Do you think the police press release mentioned a samurai sword? This is my work. The BBC don't pay for copy from us, so they didn't get it.

How did you find out? I assumed it was from the court hearing. Is that not the case?

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 10:11

dessyh · 19/07/2024 10:04

You're being rude now Barry 'Christ on a bike' treating people like they are thick because you're not explaining yourself properly.

You say there's no interest in reporting domestic murders, I show you how there is and then you make opaque comments about releases being free. Like we know you don't work for the bbc, you keep saying, then make statements about how they work. Then when proved wrong (bbc clearly interested in domestic murder stories) you repeat you don't work for them.

The issue here is Sussex Police are a trusted source. For the BBC to go against what the police press office say, they would need to see it for themselves. They didn't send anybody to court and don't pay for copy from me. The issue starts with the police press office, not the BBC. The influence of the PR industry on many aspects of our lives is more pervasive than most people realise. I started posting here to suggest the anger being directed at the BBC was misplaced in the first instance. I cannot account for decisions made after that. I've tried to be clear and concise but I understand there's an awful lot of background knowledge most people don't have. At a guess, I'd say 90 per cent of people never come into contact with the criminal justice system, but I don't have time to go through it all.
Buy a paper and you'll be well informed. Buy your local paper and you'll be helping to maintain the news industry. Challenge the PR industry. There's more press officers than reporters.

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 10:11

OldCrone · 19/07/2024 10:09

How did you find out? I assumed it was from the court hearing. Is that not the case?

Doing my job.

OldCrone · 19/07/2024 10:15

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/07/2024 10:08

It goes without saying that we absolutely cannot trust police forces to tell the truth. They are thoroughly captured by gender identity ideology.

And the same goes for the BBC.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 19/07/2024 10:16

The issue here is Sussex Police are a trusted source.

across the country the police have been regularly shown to be lying about the sex of ppl they have arrested or sadly ppl who have gone missing that they are searching for

the moment the police release a statement where a ‘woman’ has carried out an unusually violent crime, I generally assume the police are lying about their sex until I can check it out. Sad but honestly I wouldn’t trust most police media statements if they said the sky was blue. It’s an entirely self inflicted problem

why are they a trusted source when they’re regularly shown to be lying?

NecessaryScene · 19/07/2024 10:16

The issue here is Sussex Police are a trusted source.

What does that mean? It sounds as if that should be "The issue here is Sussex Police are a Trusted Source.", where "Trusted Source" is some sort of official status rather than an actual fact.

If "trusted source" is supposed to reflect reality, then clearly the assessment needs to be reviewed.

If "Trusted Source" is an official status, who confers it, and who is compelled to act upon that status? What's the legal status?

If some organisation can be granted "Trusted Source" status officially, what are their legal responsibilities? Surely they must have some if that status then confers legal obligations on others?

How do we get their "Trusted Source" status revoked based on their behaviour?

Catiette · 19/07/2024 10:17

Barry, I think you offered to explain processes to us several pages ago, then subsequently said you didn’t have time. You do seem to be investing quite a bit of time in replying to individual posts, however, which, you’re suggesting, continue to misunderstand such processes.

It may be worth one lengthy post “walking us through” it in place of this after all? Several people have said they’d be grateful - I’d be interested. Recurrent issues to address could include: the BBC not picking up on apparent anomalies in information from a trusted source (violent murder by woman) across an extended period of time despite other publications doing so; the difficulties of reconciling this with the BBC’s mandate to provide accurate information; my own earlier questions re: their journalistic responsibilities regarding this, as offering necessary context through an “explainer” or investigative piece, for example, would go some way to compensating for the limitations we perceive in their reporting. (We recognise you don’t speak for the BBC, but fleshing out your earlier partial comments on it may save you some frustration).

It may also be worth bearing in mind that, while you seem to be focussing on current processes and constraints as justification for inaccurate or misleading reporting, we’re suggesting that there’s a huge ethical issue with this and an urgent need for change - a “bigger picture” argument. It would be interesting to hear your views on this.

OldCrone · 19/07/2024 10:21

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 10:11

The issue here is Sussex Police are a trusted source. For the BBC to go against what the police press office say, they would need to see it for themselves. They didn't send anybody to court and don't pay for copy from me. The issue starts with the police press office, not the BBC. The influence of the PR industry on many aspects of our lives is more pervasive than most people realise. I started posting here to suggest the anger being directed at the BBC was misplaced in the first instance. I cannot account for decisions made after that. I've tried to be clear and concise but I understand there's an awful lot of background knowledge most people don't have. At a guess, I'd say 90 per cent of people never come into contact with the criminal justice system, but I don't have time to go through it all.
Buy a paper and you'll be well informed. Buy your local paper and you'll be helping to maintain the news industry. Challenge the PR industry. There's more press officers than reporters.

I started posting here to suggest the anger being directed at the BBC was misplaced in the first instance. I cannot account for decisions made after that.

And I've mentioned several times now that there was a second BBC report on the 3rd June where they repeated the incorrect information. You seem intent on ignoring that fact.

They did the same with Scarlet Blake and eventually had to admit they were in the wrong.

https://pressgazette.co.uk/the-wire/newspaper-corrections-media-mistakes-errors-legal/bbc-trans-pronouns-scarlet-blake/

They've been doing this since 2017 (or earlier), and keep doing it. That's why we're angry.

BBC says omission of trans identity of murderer Scarlet Blake was breach of accuracy rules

The BBC has conceded it was a breach of its accuracy rules not to tell audiences that convicted murderer Scarlet Blake was a trans woman.

https://pressgazette.co.uk/the-wire/newspaper-corrections-media-mistakes-errors-legal/bbc-trans-pronouns-scarlet-blake

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/07/2024 10:23

What @NecessaryScene said. I certainly don't trust Sussex Police to tell the truth.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/07/2024 10:24

And the same goes for the BBC.

Absolutely.

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 10:31

OldCrone · 19/07/2024 10:21

I started posting here to suggest the anger being directed at the BBC was misplaced in the first instance. I cannot account for decisions made after that.

And I've mentioned several times now that there was a second BBC report on the 3rd June where they repeated the incorrect information. You seem intent on ignoring that fact.

They did the same with Scarlet Blake and eventually had to admit they were in the wrong.

https://pressgazette.co.uk/the-wire/newspaper-corrections-media-mistakes-errors-legal/bbc-trans-pronouns-scarlet-blake/

They've been doing this since 2017 (or earlier), and keep doing it. That's why we're angry.

I don’t work for the BBC. This thread is about the first piece based on the police press release. I can’t account for decisions made after the first piece appeared. I’ve had no involvement in the other stories you mention. Clear enough?

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 10:33

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/07/2024 10:23

What @NecessaryScene said. I certainly don't trust Sussex Police to tell the truth.

I deal with them daily. If you’ve had issues with them, let’s talk.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 19/07/2024 10:36

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 09:58

I'm the reporter who found out it was a samurai sword! I'm also the only reporter to go against the police report on the sex of the defendant.
You're literally quoting my own work back at me.

Well that's good, I'm very glad you did and now I appreciate that. Thank you.

If the police feel it's OK to mislead reporters and the public then I dunno about you but I'd call that a big problem. I'm puzzled about why you appear to be justifying the BBC reporting rather than trying to identify what's gone wrong, and seeming to say it doesn't matter that the police were giving wrong information or that no-one else challenged it.

I'm going to reiterate: just because a woman could doesn't mean we should be lied to that a woman did, or that women in general do. You are on FWR and over here we are very aware that kind of false belief has serious consequences for women's services and for women's lives. So it's good that you investigated and reported.

But it comes cross as dissmissive just to be told that you don't have time to explain "the process" how this came about. If you don't have time to explain yourself then do you have any pointers that someone could follow up?

OldCrone · 19/07/2024 10:40

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 10:33

I deal with them daily. If you’ve had issues with them, let’s talk.

One issue, if the BBC first report on this came directly from information supplied by the police, is that they appear to be giving out incorrect information to the media about the sex of suspects.

Paganpentacle · 19/07/2024 11:03

Complained.

OldCrone · 19/07/2024 11:11

unclebarry · 19/07/2024 10:31

I don’t work for the BBC. This thread is about the first piece based on the police press release. I can’t account for decisions made after the first piece appeared. I’ve had no involvement in the other stories you mention. Clear enough?

For you, perhaps, this thread is about the first BBC report. For us, it's about much more than just that.

Some of the other issues:

  1. If their first report was based on a police press release, then there are questions about why the police are lying to the press about the sex of suspects.
  2. Three days after the first court appearance, the BBC was still referring to this person as female. By this time, they knew this man was in a male prison and they had had ample time to find other sources which indicated that he was male. It now looks as though they are deliberately lying about his sex.
  3. The second BBC report didn't name the author of the piece, but attributed it to a news agency. In the light of what happened with the Scarlet Blake reporting, this looks like a deliberate attempt to distance themselves from the misinformation.
  4. The news agency, which you describe as a 'trusted source' (whatever that means) is also lying about the sex of this man. What makes such a dishonest source 'trusted'? This also raises questions about why the news agency is keen to misinform the public.
There's a lot more I could add to this, but this is a brief summary of some of the issues with the way stories like this are reported.

I've been posting on here for 7 or 8 years, and stories like this turn up regularly. The initial BBC report wasn't a one-off, understandable error, which is how you seem to be seeing it. It's part of a pattern of recurrent behaviour.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/07/2024 11:14

What @OldCrone said. This isn't our first rodeo.

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