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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Inaccurate BBC story - Trans identified male

253 replies

WineIsMyCarb · 01/06/2024 07:14

Bbc Sussex has described trans identified male murderer as 'woman' throughout story, with no reference at all to his sex or trans identity.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp00de3r3qro

If you wish to complain about this inaccurate reporting of a male's violent crime, the bbc's complaints link is here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints

Andrew Rowland-Stuart, who died at his home on 27 May, smiling, wearing a grey t-shirt and grey waistcoat

Brighton: Woman, 70, in court over husband's death

Emergency services were called to a flat where the victim was pronounced dead, police say.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp00de3r3qro

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
frazzled1 · 17/06/2024 16:50

Complained (kept it brief).

Just got this non-response:

Thank you for getting in touch about our article reporting that Joanna Rowland-Stuart has been arrested and charged with murder.

We have published two articles about the case, both of which have accurately reported the information put into the public domain by the authorities during court proceedings, and will continue to report on the case as it develops.

All feedback from readers is appreciated and shared with senior editors so that they are aware of audience concerns, so thank you again for contacting us to make your views known.

Will email Tim Davie as pp suggested.

Cheermonger · 17/06/2024 16:59

I got that too - exactly the same

mrshoho · 17/06/2024 17:00

frazzled1 · 17/06/2024 16:50

Complained (kept it brief).

Just got this non-response:

Thank you for getting in touch about our article reporting that Joanna Rowland-Stuart has been arrested and charged with murder.

We have published two articles about the case, both of which have accurately reported the information put into the public domain by the authorities during court proceedings, and will continue to report on the case as it develops.

All feedback from readers is appreciated and shared with senior editors so that they are aware of audience concerns, so thank you again for contacting us to make your views known.

Will email Tim Davie as pp suggested.

I got the same response. Disappointing and disingenuous although I do see their point they are reporting on the facts disclosed by the authorities. There was me thinking the BBC used world class investigative news journalists. Evidently not. What is the point of the bbc these days?

InterestingMuch · 17/06/2024 17:00

Just popped on to add I'd had my reply - and saw it was identical to the two above.

MarkWithaC · 17/06/2024 17:12

I've just had this response too. I've replied reminding them about the investigation into the Scarlet Blake thing, and its outcome.

PammieDooveOrangeJoof · 17/06/2024 17:49

MarkWithaC · 17/06/2024 17:12

I've just had this response too. I've replied reminding them about the investigation into the Scarlet Blake thing, and its outcome.

Oh I missed an investigation and outcome for this? I just got a bog standard response to my complaint?

334bu · 17/06/2024 18:05

Same response.

TWETMIRF · 17/06/2024 18:08

mrshoho · 17/06/2024 17:00

I got the same response. Disappointing and disingenuous although I do see their point they are reporting on the facts disclosed by the authorities. There was me thinking the BBC used world class investigative news journalists. Evidently not. What is the point of the bbc these days?

They may as well just give the police a log in to update the BBC news website. Get rid of the journalists and save loads in wages bills if they aren't doing any journalism

DuesToTheDirt · 17/06/2024 20:32

Well "trans identity" for Scarlet Blake gets you partly there, but given that many people still seem to think that "trans woman" means someone who was born female, and "trans identity" could go either way, I'd rather they said somewhere that these people are MALE.

Of course we know what happened to Justin Webb when he tried that.

unclebarry · 17/07/2024 10:34

You've got this wrong. It wasn't the BBC. It was the police. The BBC report is just a cut 'n paste of the press release.

Catiette · 17/07/2024 12:04

unclebarry · 17/07/2024 10:34

You've got this wrong. It wasn't the BBC. It was the police. The BBC report is just a cut 'n paste of the press release.

I’m unclear what’s “wrong” about wanting the national broadcaster to do due diligence in the same way as (a minority of, in this case) other outlets in order to check & report facts accurately.

If you’re suggesting that the police AND BBC are at fault - the former for misleading press releases & the latter for a lack of appropriate rigour in writing these up - I totally agree.

BobbyBiscuits · 17/07/2024 12:11

I get that they'd gender them as "she" but they should refer to them as transwoman, not just woman. It's true it is misleading.
I don't really get it. I've a transman cousin and he always refers to himself as such. Of course we call him he and by male name out of respect. But he wouldn't expect to referred to as just 'man'. (Though obviously he'd prefer that to 'woman')

unclebarry · 17/07/2024 13:46

When and how would the BBC find out they were a man?

OldCrone · 17/07/2024 15:10

unclebarry · 17/07/2024 13:46

When and how would the BBC find out they were a man?

The same way the Daily Mail reporter found out.

SamW98 · 17/07/2024 15:22

unclebarry · 17/07/2024 13:46

When and how would the BBC find out they were a man?

By using their eyes

TWETMIRF · 17/07/2024 16:18

It's called journalism. Researching and publishing a news report rather than just copy and paste any old crap. Seems the BBC isn't a fan of accuracy or unbiased reporting

unclebarry · 17/07/2024 17:09

It's called reporting - journalism is different - and if you get a press release from the cops saying they've arrested a woman do you think they should ring the cops and ask them if they're sure?

Catiette · 17/07/2024 17:39

unclebarry · 17/07/2024 17:09

It's called reporting - journalism is different - and if you get a press release from the cops saying they've arrested a woman do you think they should ring the cops and ask them if they're sure?

I find this argument really weak, and the patronising tone unhelpful. A degree of faux naivete, perhaps. If not...

On the reporting front.

They're failing.

Our national broadcaster has a mandate to provide clear, accurate information to the public, and this was neither clear nor accurate.

If the source is untrustworthy or misleading, as (to my endless astonishment) in this case, this must be acknowledged or followed up, not simply "reported" as fact.

If the terminology is unclear, as the word "woman" now is, this should be contextualised or clarified.

Approaches necessary to upholding their mandate in this difficult context could range from surveying the public's understanding of rapidly shifting language (recent, smaller-scale surveys have suggested a significant proportion are not aware that "woman" may mean "transwoman", nor even that "transwoman" is a male identifying as female, as opposed to the other way around), to using quotation marks or more careful phrasing that makes it clear that the language used and judgement made regarding this individual's sex/gender is that of the police, and not necessarily the BBC.

On the journalism front.

They're failing.

They're aware of the ongoing debate regarding the meaning of the word "woman" and the controversial adoption of different interpretations of this in different contexts, yet have unambiguously aligned themselves with one side - to the extent that they elect to use both "woman" and "female" for male criminals when other less influential publications ascertain and report the culprit as a "transwoman", and challenged one of their own journalists for seeking to clarify the latter term in his reporting. This readiness to unquestioningly replicate other public institutions' adoption of highly politicised language at the expense of public understanding sets an exceptionally dangerous precedent for our democracy.

Woman and girls are being denied the relevant knowledge to make the necessary judgements about their safety. Some remain unaware that single sex spaces are no longer protected by the social contract on which we all used to rely - that blissfully reassuring confidence that someone else witnessing a man follow you into a loo would have every reason to assume malicious intent and would call him out on it. Meanwhile, those of us in-the-know from reading other publications' more thorough and precise reporting are struggling to ascertain the truth of claims that transwomen present less of a threat to us.

Actually, prison statistics indicate that they do, quite clearly, present the same threat, if not a considerably higher one. So where's the investigative journalism on this huge issue? Where are the "fact-checkers" and "explainers" deemed important in other contexts? Where' the evidence that the BBC is fulfilling its journalistic responsibilities here?*

*See also the WPATH files.

unclebarry · 17/07/2024 21:05

I'm not taking issue with you or anybody else on terminology, politics or threat levels. I hope that's clear. I'm also not trying to patronise anybody.
If the BBC read a press release from the cops saying they've arrested a woman for killing her husband, at what point do they decide Sussex Police press office are an untrustworthy or misleading source?
For context on the reporting/journalism side, I wrote the mailonline piece. We were expecting a woman to show up in court. The BBC were not in court and did not have access to the words we provided to mailonline and every other national newspaper.
The starting point for this thread is making assumptions about how the BBC operates and how their news gathering works. If you want more thorough reporting - buy a paper. The money you put into the news business will fund the extra time it takes to put more work into a story, like going to court to see a man show up in the dock when you're expecting a woman.
The cops put out a press release saying they'd arrested a woman. The BBC weren't in court to see the defendant was clearly a man. The BBC didn't have anything to go on other than the police press office statement.
At the next hearing in Crown Court, it was apparent the defendant is being held in a male prison. I'm hoping there's a bit more clarity when they appear again on Friday.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/07/2024 22:00

People are understandably fed up of being lied to on this issue. They aren't interested in excuses why we should blame the police more than journalists. The media need to push back, they have more clout than the women on this site do. It's hardly like the BBC is a tiny, powerless organisation, and we're all aware of their biases on this issue.

OldCrone · 17/07/2024 22:13

The starting point for this thread is making assumptions about how the BBC operates and how their news gathering works.

The BBC employs journalists. They don't just reproduce press releases with no input. Some of their journalists do real investigative journalism, as Hannah Barnes did when she worked for them..

The BBC had as much opportunity as any other news outlet to find out the facts of the case before reporting on it. They either chose not to, or decided to go with misinformation in full knowledge that they were lying.

dessyh · 17/07/2024 23:14

unclebarry · 17/07/2024 21:05

I'm not taking issue with you or anybody else on terminology, politics or threat levels. I hope that's clear. I'm also not trying to patronise anybody.
If the BBC read a press release from the cops saying they've arrested a woman for killing her husband, at what point do they decide Sussex Police press office are an untrustworthy or misleading source?
For context on the reporting/journalism side, I wrote the mailonline piece. We were expecting a woman to show up in court. The BBC were not in court and did not have access to the words we provided to mailonline and every other national newspaper.
The starting point for this thread is making assumptions about how the BBC operates and how their news gathering works. If you want more thorough reporting - buy a paper. The money you put into the news business will fund the extra time it takes to put more work into a story, like going to court to see a man show up in the dock when you're expecting a woman.
The cops put out a press release saying they'd arrested a woman. The BBC weren't in court to see the defendant was clearly a man. The BBC didn't have anything to go on other than the police press office statement.
At the next hearing in Crown Court, it was apparent the defendant is being held in a male prison. I'm hoping there's a bit more clarity when they appear again on Friday.

The police press release didn't just say woman, it named the culprit, so I'm surprised no journos at the BBC or the DM did a quick copy paste on that fairly unusual name + Brighton. Why would no one gather basic info like accused's job, a pic of them on their socials, previous news reports etc. if only for their own info. The bbc article could have been updated too, which I think is the gist of the thread.

Catiette · 17/07/2024 23:46

I’m conscious I’m not aware how these things work, but…

The idea that reporters may be finding themselves surprised in court does seem to suggest how problematic the current standards & practices for recording & reporting such crimes are, though.

As such, would you (Barry) agree with associated concerns - that the BBC’s remiss in not covering this debate sufficiently thoroughly for many even to be aware of the potential for such confusion? People are reading these articles & forming opinions - whether justified or not - about female & trans women’s crime rates based on a misapprehension.

I do feel this degrades trust & - ironically - risks fomenting an avoidable wariness in readers “in the know” when reading about these issues that’s of no benefit to trans people themselves…

WearyLady · 17/07/2024 23:58

I agree with all of what was said by @dessyh and I'd also add that this was a very unusual crime, particularly so for a woman to commit. I'm not an investigative journalist but I now question the veracity of any unusual crimes committed by women and will do further research myself. I'd expect someone whose job is to investigate and report to do at least as much as this.

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