"Teachers to tell children Gender Ideology is a contested belief"

[WarriorN]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/14/teachers-pupils-gender-ideology-trans-guidance/

Teachers will have to make clear that gender ideology is a “contested belief” rather than fact if they bring it up in lessons, Gillian Keegan will say later this week.
The Education Secretary is set to issue guidance on Thursday following criticism that some pupils were being taught that there were 72 genders.
Schools will not be told to hold lessons on gender ideologygy, which states that people can be born the wrong sex and that they can change their identity to the opposite sex or other categories such as non-binary.*
But if they do hold lessons on the issue, they must make it clear that it is a contested belief.
In other words, they must say that the “gender-critical” beliefef that there are just two biological sexes is also valid.*
The guidance - which will be out for consultation - will also order schools to show parents all classroom material to ensure they are comfortable with what is being taught.

Haven’t RTFT but thank God regarding the new guidelines.

Emma Barnett, your debut on R4 this morning was fantastic! Thank you for reading out the listener from Nottingham’s comment just after 8.30 - it was spot on. You’re a really welcome breath of fresh air on the programme. I’m sure you’re on here somewhere ☺️

Well it was another child showing him porn, apparently. He went on to say that this was in black and white and a magazine, so obvs online stuff is worse. Yes, that's why primary aged children aren't allowed access, utter fool.

If this happened at my DD's school it would be considered a safeguarding incident at the very least and likely a referral to MASH and discussion with parents of child with the porn magazine (AT AGE 8!!).

I'm fairly sure if my child was shown something like that they'd come to me, and I would immediately report to the school (and that's assuming the child is only showing one other child). Did Chalke not tell his parents? What happened as a result? It's a safeguarding incident!

If Chalke thinks teachers also aren't aware if there are rumours about the facts of life being spread among students he has no clue.

If there has been a safeguarding failure and teachers need to step in to correct wrong facts having been given that's a different thing than introducing the subject at an inappropriately early age.

Why does the BBC constantly platform such mediocre men who have unlimited arrogance and talk over women?

It'a a tricky one but as the age of consent is 16, we need to ask what is it that 11 & 12 year olds need to know about sex? Teaching sex ed is complex - an average class of 11 or 12 years olds will have some children who are mentally and emotionally still at primary level with others having been exposed to age inappropriate material from a frighteningly early age. You have to be conservative (with a small c) in teaching this. Try to teach at an age appropriate level.
The assumption that as a small % of young children have been groomed, abused & are therefore sexually active is not the benchmark for what you teach all 11 & 12 year olds. No matter what Steve Chalke would like to happen.

Agree that the conflation of sex ed with gender ideology is completely disingenuous. The latter has nothing to do with the former; the clue is the word “ideology”. If the adults in charge conflate the issues or appear not to understand the crucial differences correctly or teach them as part of the same topic, then what chances do school children have of trying to work out what is fact and what is bollox fiction?

Waves!

Someone locally found me out

To address a PP comment about concern for contraception not being taught until later secondary school, currently the case is that most secondary schools do not teach contraception until at least year 9 (13-14 years) in RSE. It is then covered in more detail in year 10 in Science lessons, and again in year 10 RSE.

Reproduction (puberty, organs, functions, fertilisation, pregnancy and birth) are taught in year 7 Science (11-12) and contraception is mentioned only once, and in no detail. My school also have a lesson we use when discussing the HPV vaccine, in year 8, where barrier methods are mentioned.

None of our feeder primary schools cover contraception. Almost all of them teach gender identity/gender reassignment.

It's naive to think that children are not having sex below the age of consent @MrsOvertonsWindow. It is a myth that talking about it is encouraging it. It is living in the real world. My dm was very much involved in her work in the 1980s with "underage mums". We had highest rates in Europe.

Also the work my dm was involved with was largely children of the same age in relationships. As it will be now. If children are going to be having sex at 12/13 they need to know about contraception before that.

So were schools explicitly told they had to include trans in sex ed? When did it creep in, who put it there, why did teachers and schools agree to include it, why don't more exclude it?

Schools, governors and teachers are supposed to safeguard children. Why aren't they? Why do they lie to them and indulge this fantasy?

I don't think it follows that the best place to do this is in general lessons in school though. It could be via parents it could be more targeted to children who are more likely to be having sex. There could be signposting to the school nurse / pastoral if children need help and information/

It's isn't a good argument that school lessons should always be geared to the children at most risk, it's not fair on the other children.

And this is all totally different to teaching children you can be born in the wrong body, which is particularly awful to teach if there are any disabled children in the class.

If children are going to be having sex at 12/13 they need to know about contraception before that.

Any child having sex at 12 is being abused. This should prompt a referral, not advice on contraception:

'A young person under the age of 13 is considered unable to give valid consent to any sexual act. This means that any sexual act (sexual kissing, sexual touching, oral, anal or vaginal sex) involving anyone under the age of 13 is by definition a Child Protection issue, whether the young person has consented or not.
If you become aware that anyone under the age of 13 has been involved in any sexual act you must make a child protection referral.
A referral to Social Work Services and the Police is inevitable in such cases, and it is very likely that, during the course of further investigations, the young person’s parents will be told that they have been involved in sexual activity.'

https://www.nhsborders.scot.nhs.uk/patients-and-visitors/our-services/general-services/underage-sexual-activity-interagency-guidance/under-13s/

The law in Scotland for 13, 14 and 15 year olds:

Sexual Offences Act 2009:

'It is a criminal offence for anyone who is 16 or older to have any kind of sexual contact with someone aged 13, 14 or 15. It is also a criminal offence for both girls and boys aged 13, 14 and 15 to have consensual sex with anyone else aged 13, 14 or 15. This applies whether they are the initiating partner or the consenting partner. This criminal offence where both are aged 13, 14 or 15 applies solely to penetration of the mouth, vagina or anus with the penis and to touching of the penis vagina or anus with the mouth. People in this age group participating in other consensual sexual acts are not committing criminal offences.'

I entirely disagree @Ginnyweasleyswand. I think it's naive to think you can assess and target certain children. Who would have the experience to do this for a kick off? Plenty of parents still don't talk to their children about sex. Parents are able to opt out of sex education for their children.

"If we don't talk about it, it won't happen" mentality doesn't work. Many parents don't want sex Ed in schools because they have this attitude and don't want to talk about it at home either. Or don't do so in an adequate way. They often don't want to think of their children in these terms and children don't want to hear it from the parents. I'm very concerned about children being ignorant of the risks and harms of underage sex and pregnancy that not talking about it is likely to cause.

I'm very concerned about children being ignorant about abuse.

So if it's 2 12 year olds having sex who is abusing who @ArabellaScott ?

I'm not advocating talking about contraception to 12 year olds and expecting them to go off and have sex immediately. That's not what sex education is about

Both children would be referred in that situation and relevant agencies involved. That is a safeguarding issue for both children.

Why do you keep conflating this issue with children of different ages?

What? You raised the issue of 12 year olds having sex.

Of course it's a safeguarding issue @ArabellaScott . That's not the point. You're talking as if I'm saying "give 2 12 year olds a cosy bed for the night and here's a condom" I'm talking about education.

I'm referring to your comment here:-

"is a criminal offence for anyone who is 16 or older to have any kind of sexual contact with someone aged 13, 14 or 15. "

@ArabellaScott

There's plenty of subjects taught in school that aren't about anticipating children to go out and engage immediately.

Gender ideology is a Vatican coined phrase formed to push back against LGBTQ rights across the board.

Someone on MN said a while ago that gender identity ideology was a more accurate term to describe this current set of beliefs around gender, because gender ideology had already been claimed as a concept by misogynists wanting to ignore/discredit feminists who were pointing out that gender oppression is an actual thing.

Anyway, the main thing is to not teach things not based in fact and which might lead them down a pathway to unevidenced surgery and sterilisation.

I do think there's a debate to be had about whether the risk of overly sexualising a large number of children inappropriately early which may make them at more risk of abuse is greater than the risk of some children having sex without having sufficient information about contraception.

And I'm afraid that however much anyone thinks they're right on this, they do not have the right to remove parental responsibility. Too many adults seem to think they have a right to do so. They do not, and doing so is a huge safeguarding failure. And illegal.