MN in the Guardian

[theDudesmummy]

This whole article is rather grating me and I can't put my finger on exactly why. Sneering at FWR while saying she steers clear of it? The "damning with faint praise" tone of it? The silliness and missing the point of calling out an "obsession with public toilets"? I got a real anti-feminist, "little women's problems" vibe from the article.
Or am I wrong?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/11/mumsnet-flaws-experience-parenting?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

So we're sad, loopy, politically dodgy, obsessive, toxic, and bigoted?

Apart from that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

Surely all human life (with a mum flavour) is here, and what makes it different is the moderation, which unlike other sites tries to take out the unpleasantness without imposing Orwellian CorrectThink?

I see they're not inviting comments or letters.

Worth reposting as I agree. Great idea.

Haven't read the article as I've boycotted the Guardian since they sacked Steve Bell. I did generally find Rhiannon Lucy Coslett to be a good and entertaining writer though.

I'll admit to using 'hubby' here quite happily, along with 'fella' and other such abominations. I prefer these to acronyms that may be confusing or exclusionary as I am strong believer in language as a tool for honest, straightforward and open communication rather than demonstrating yourself to be part of a clique or one of those in the know. I also hate snobbery and do my best to combat it at all times so don't shy away from phrases that may be looked down on. I could say 'husband' or 'husband-friend', which is how I actually feel about him, but I generally don't. So what? I don't work for the shit rag that is the Guardian having sold my soul and the rights of my sisters for next to nothing so can hold my head up high. I will apologise for dragging you all down with me though 😂

Guardian is too broke to pay for comment moderators.

That paper has really gone downhill

Oh meh. That's too poor a piece of waffle to spend any time critiquing.

Tbf the Guardian will absolutely not want women being directed to FWR for a nosey and a read because the trans-is-great scales would be falling from their eyes pretty quickly. Better to let this useful lightweight slag it off a bit and pretend that lofty liberal Guardian readers should not sully themselves with reading such bigotry.

Ugh she's just so above it all isn't she? Her being "progressive" and all. 🙄

Has she not heard of the Cass review and seen that the concerns raised about puberty blockers on MN have been absolutely vindicated?!

There are very many knowledgeable and articulate posters on here posting on the many strands of toxic gender ideology. Education, NHS, sports, employment rights etc etc.

She would learn a lot if she didn't dismiss FWR as just being a moral panic about puberty blockers.

And if she hates the word "hubby" which I have hardly ever seen on here, better not go to nethuns.

I suppose she will see this thread, obviously, and I would feel a bit bad about that, except for the supercilious and uncomprehending comment about avoiding FWR, along with the bigot slur, which really got me as it could do harm in the real world and should be called out. Masquerading as a feminist while staying in that lane is not acceptable to me.

Other than that, it's just stereotyped fluff really, which is fine if you like that sort of thing, and I wouldn't have bothered to comment, much less start a thread (I don't read her normally, just read this because it was about MN).

Thinking about it now, this has actually been cleverly (and subversively) done by whoever commissioned the piece. Getting in there with a silly article about MN's quirks, to divert attention, because the fallout from Cass cannot be ignored, but they need to forestall anyone seeing what FWR is really about. Ugh Guardian, we see you.

I cannae muster the energy to read it.

Same. Her articles are always silly, cringey and self-indulgent. Like a lot of Guardian columnists.

Same. I used to be a daily Guardian reader. Now, I'd trust the Beano more to publish insightful, balanced opinions about current events tbh.

Well, maybe if she did bother to read fwr she'd know it wasn't full of bigotry. In all the stuff about gc women, this is the bit I hate the most. It's such an easy way to dismiss those who are protecting women and their spaces the most. It's like wearing a badge that says 'I don't educate myself about what lots of women are saying about women's rights because I'm too liberal, too superior for that.'

Its the opposite of critical thinking.

I imagine that this person could be any one of the scolders we have on this board. Telling women what they should or should not say, do or how they should be kind. Or how to say it.

'I still use X, despite the fact that I saw someone on there the other day lauding Joseph Goebbels as an example of fatherly sacrifice, so why not Mumsnet?'
So we're somewhere in the same category as Goebbels-quoters? Nice.
I rarely read the rest of MN, just FWR and Craicnet, and the very occasional foray into AIBU, and there is negative and derogatory stuff around, of course, how could there not be? All human life etc etc.

But FWR - 'which seem[s] to often descend into toxicity and bigotry'??
Yeah there are moments where posters lose it, understandably, but on the whole the level of knowledge, analysis, debate and humour on here is remarkable.

And I know this sounds soppy but... it is a place where posters admit when they are wrong, or apologise for being 'snippy', and IMO that is a gem, and a rare gem, in the crown of contemporary human discourse✨So there, call me soppy if you will

I never look at or post on other areas of the forum - but to my mind ( I assume) the best, most challenging, and most thoughful posts are in FWR.

"Some of this resistance is good old-fashioned misogyny, but some is valid. Mumsnet has, in the past decade, become a meeting place of choice for feminists with gender critical views. Some will argue that it has provided a forum for women to air opinions in a safe space, and raise concerns about issues such as puberty blockers and – an obsession on Mumsnet – public toilets. I personally steer away from reading these discussions, which seem to often descend into toxicity and bigotry"

As she by hey own admission steers away from reading discussions on FWR how can she then in the same breath say they descend into toxicity and bigotry?

Either she does read them and that's, rightly or wrongly, her view or she doesn't read them and is just repeating someone else's prejudiced view of certain parts of the forum without proper investigation.

Personally I think she's outsourced her thinking on this otherwise she would understand the 'public toilets' discussions and her assumption that often things descend into toxicity and bigotry would be rather more nuanced and give more clarity as to which side of the debate the toxicity and bigotry is coming from as it's not the side she is trying to insinuate.

Is Cosslett one of those who signed the letter protesting against Suzanne Moore?

I don't mind Rhiannon Lucy Cosslett. She was first the "young" writer then "mum". I've seen Zoe Williams go through the same life phases and I don't mind listening to women write about what they know. I think we are too quick to tear women down. I find she stands out to me more than the male writers. I must admit I'm not a regular reader as I'm not at the young child stage of life. I might read her a bit more now you linked to that article.

I think she's done her best in the article to say "don't vilify mumsnet". Mumsnet has always had a bad reputation in the press. I think she is right to point out ingrained misogyny in society's attitude towards mums. Dad's don't get tarred with the same brush. Involved dad's are still lionised.

She even tries to get the nuance in that mumsnet is a broad church. I hate it when people try and generalise about mumsnet as we seem to be a hotbed of contradiction. It might depend on which thread she frequents. For example she says we are conservative and cites a pervasive anti-drugs attitude (pretty normal for parents to not want dc to take drugs). Has she ever joined a 90s thread of people happily reminiscing about being off their face at Cream or taking magic mushrooms at Glasto?!

She might have missed that penis beaker was a troll and there's a lot of made up stuff to sift on the site.

Also hubby is vanishingly rare. Most people here hate it.

When will journos stop reporting the 'dear' moniker like we all really call our family dear husband dear children etc. The abbreviations pre-date MN but we've picked them up and made them our own. We all know what we are talking about with a DH or a DP and that's what matters without typing the full word.

Got to say I cannot stand the whole 'DH' thing. But it comes with site unfortunately so I grit my teeth. 😂

I don't mind DH, I always feel it's somewhat tongue in cheek. I did draw the line at calling a period AF, though (in the days when that was a relevant thing to me)!

I did draw the line at calling a period AF, though (in the days when that was a relevant thing to me)!

That one had thankfully passed me by! 😂

It's an American thing I think!

please, please be on here Rhiannon

1st quote:
‘“Mums” are seen as dowdy and humdrum and a little bit silly, and this makes me sad.’

With respect, forget that - that is a you problem and a culture problem. You know in reality we are fiercely protective and the most important person in anyone’s life (who can make you shine or f’ up your life more)?

2nd quote:
‘and – an obsession on Mumsnet – public toilets. I personally steer away from reading these discussions, which seem to often descend into toxicity and bigotry.’

DONT STOP READING!

Please for everyone sake, but particularly girls, women’s and vulnerable people do not steer away from reading these discussions. There are toilet design regulations going through at the moment which are flawed. I am happy to be contacted and have read all the consultation documents. It’s not about gender it’s about safety. I speak from experience that a simple tweak in toilet design is life-saving but, apart from here, I feel like I am shouting into a void.

For it to be The Guardian to champion this, a paper I grew up with reading on the floor spread out on the shagpile carpet, fighting over the Women section at the weekend, would be a joy.