Gender-neutral lavatories banned in new-build restaurants and offices

[IwantToRetire]

The new legislation applies to commercial properties as well as those undergoing ‘major refurbishment’

Bars, restaurants and offices will be barred from creating new premises with gender-neutral lavatories, under changes to the law to take effect later this year.

In a move which ministers said would increase the “safety, privacy and dignity” of women, new non-domestic buildings will be required to include separate male and female lavatories.

Those that cannot do so will have to install so-called universal facilities, which include a lavatory, wash basin and hand dryer behind a lockable door.

As well as affecting all new commercial buildings, the measure will also apply to businesses and hospitality venues undertaking “major refurbishment”

Article continues at https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-neutral-lavatories-banned-toilet-commercial-buildings-trans-zzsg826st
and can be read at https://archive.ph/FQlr2

I was thinking this means it will now be the law, but in fact means that a bill to achieve this will only be presented (this week?)

From the Government statement:

Changes to building regulations will ensure that:

• Separate single-sex toilets facilities are provided for men and women;
• Self-contained, universal toilets may be provided in addition to single-sex toilets, where space allows;
• Self-contained universal toilets may be provided instead of single-sex toilets only where lack of space reasonably precludes provision of single-sex toilet accommodation.

Read full statement at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-lay-new-law-to-halt-the-march-of-gender-neutral-toilets-in-buildings

I am not convinced that this proposed approach is going to achieve the desired result.

I would prefer some gender neutral toilet provision alongside single sex facilities.

I think transwomen have a point when they say they don’t feel safe in male toilets. Gender neutral toilets as additional facilities resolve this and enable single sex toilets to be truly single sex. It also is inclusive for non-binary people.

I know transwomen argue this is othering but I see this as a compromise.

@Harassedevictee but the second point of the bit in bold is allowing additional provision?

I’d be concerned that this would be taken up as a positive by TW, as the toilets are to be segregated by sex, then TW will assert that they are entitled to use female facilities (even if only those with a GRC - and as you can’t check/ask this, then it is a free for all).

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/06/gender-specific-toilets-to-be-required-in-non-residential-buildings-in-england

I've just seen this too.

I think it may not be a detailed enough plan but the bit in this article says it's to prevent say new schools open that just have neutral toilets.

I've been in a couple of schools recently where the toilets is like lots of stalls and communal washing but one side open to the corridor - and I can see why students wouldn't like this.

My place of work has lots of self contained individual stalls with their own door and own sink. and I have less issue with that. But I've often wondered about people getting locked in!

I am concerned that people will just self identify as the other gender so it won't make any difference....

And yes it is no longer feels okay to challenge "men" in ladies toilets in case they happen to be trans so I'm not sure they've solved it.

I do love that this is becoming something that people can talk about and think about though as well as the NHS ward issue, even though the NHS is fully captured and now most councils it seems.. And schools are going open pkan/unisex to avoid this..

I guess a future of unisex toilets isn't great either as it eases "women's toilets" completely..

"Campaigners for trans rights have long argued that gender-neutral toilets can be reassuring for some transgender men and women who fear discrimination in binary toilets." Guardian

That bit raised some eyebrows in this household. Since when has this been the stance?

Since 2 seconds ago!

But seriously, how would TW get the validation they seek if they must use the toilets of their natal sex or a mixed-sex (gender neutral) toilet?
As that has been their basic argument against GC requests for third spaces…

Well there are probably the old-fashioned kind of transpeople who have that stance, ie the kind who just want to go about their lives quietly and unobtrusively, the kind whose voices haven't been heard in recent TR activism.

But no, I haven't heard any TR campaigners calling for it.

It says “maybe provided” I think it should be “must also be provided” as we are talking about new buildings.

Never because they say it’s “othering” because it doesn’t support those who need the validation.

The way it's being reported is 'single gender' but the quote from the proposed bill states it's 'single sex' so TW are not allowed in female toilets.

Our company's new trans and NB policy came out a month or so ago and said that people should use the facility that best matches their preference/gender.
I did a bit of research to challenge it but couldn't find legislation unequivocally banning that, I may contact FPFW or sex matters on it

I rarely listen to the radio this early, but Matthew Wright is being absolutely vile about this on LBC this morning. What a rude person he is. Trotting out the rubbish about having a gender neutral toilet in his own house. He is very prone to interrupt and talk over his guests while telling them to keep quiet.

Will the law ever be passed, or is it just an announcement designed to distract from the local election losses?

Trotting out the rubbish about having a gender neutral toilet in his own house

Im hoping this argument goes to the wall soon, it’s so clearly stupid.

I let* my cat sit on my work surfaces, but I wouldn’t eat in a cafe or restaurant that allowed animals in the kitchen.

I’m also Team Additional Third Space, I do believe there are some for whom it’s necessary. I think it’s a massive shame that wasn’t the way the campaigning went years ago, but that wasn’t good enough.

*Cannot stop.

The Telegraph have reported this. I particularly liked this comment from the housing minister Lee Rowley:

“I have no interest in fighting any war on social issues. I want an open, tolerant and welcoming society. My first instinct is always to live and let live wherever possible.
Yet, the ground beneath our feet on these issues is constantly shifting – pushed by unelected activists who try to move us in directions that the average person doesn’t support nor, often, which make sense. And, where it makes no sense, it is the job of a responsible Government to stop that happening. That is the exact opposite of a culture war.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/06/single-sex-toilets-compulsory-new-building-regulations-tory/

Seems a bit strange. In a new office being built for my work they are not putting in ladies and gents - instead all toilets will be the universal ones with their own basins and dryers. This seems pretty sensible to me but will this not be allowed under these rules?

According to the Telegraph, "Building regulations will be changed later this year to make it compulsory" which will apply to all new builds and major renovations.

Looks as if that will be allowed - individual toilets in lockable rooms with their own facilities

• Well the bit OP quoted said Self-contained universal toilets may be provided instead of single-sex toilets only where lack of space reasonably precludes provision of single-sex toilet accommodation.

I would prefer nice private ones where no one can hear what I’m doing in there so I don’t quite understand this!

People who say they’re NB are either male or female.
Women are not human shields that should protect men who identify as female from other men.
The safety, dignity and welfare of women is paramount in an age where VAWG is on the increase.
Tell the men to stop attacking other men who identify as women!

Oh, and show me the statistics that point out the degree of violence caused to TWs in men’s toilets.

Oh, no. That's a real step backwards. I was so pleased when gender-neutral toilets and changing rooms started being introduced, because it made it so much easier for DH to do his fair share of child-wrangling. Fair enough to have some dedicated single sex spaces, but unisex/gender neutral spacing for changing, toileting etc had a hugely positive impact on most of the families I know, and it would be such a shame to lose them.

brilliant! I always worry about whether there will be a toilet available if I need a wee and sounds like Matthew is volunteering his house

becatse a public toilet that anyone can go in is absolutely the same as a toilet in a private individuals house where you know exactly who people are

i bet he thinks it’s a really smart argument as well

also it’s not “gender neutral” becatse gender is made up bollocks, it’s “mixed sex”

It depends on the set up. In my workplace we have single sex toilets with 3 cubicles in each one and a urinal in the men’s. We also have 2 separate toilets in a different area which can be used by either sex. These are fully self contained off a corridor and include sink, toilet, dryer etc.
All disabled toilets are unisex and are self contained rooms.

Would you think it such a shame when your DD(if you have one) has to be exposed to males at the urinals when she’s old enough to go into the toilets herself? Where there would be unchallenged access for predatory men who claim to be women? Where’s her safety, privacy and dignity?