Gender-neutral lavatories banned in new-build restaurants and offices

[IwantToRetire]

The new legislation applies to commercial properties as well as those undergoing ‘major refurbishment’

Bars, restaurants and offices will be barred from creating new premises with gender-neutral lavatories, under changes to the law to take effect later this year.

In a move which ministers said would increase the “safety, privacy and dignity” of women, new non-domestic buildings will be required to include separate male and female lavatories.

Those that cannot do so will have to install so-called universal facilities, which include a lavatory, wash basin and hand dryer behind a lockable door.

As well as affecting all new commercial buildings, the measure will also apply to businesses and hospitality venues undertaking “major refurbishment”

Article continues at https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-neutral-lavatories-banned-toilet-commercial-buildings-trans-zzsg826st
and can be read at https://archive.ph/FQlr2

I was thinking this means it will now be the law, but in fact means that a bill to achieve this will only be presented (this week?)

From the Government statement:

Changes to building regulations will ensure that:

• Separate single-sex toilets facilities are provided for men and women;
• Self-contained, universal toilets may be provided in addition to single-sex toilets, where space allows;
• Self-contained universal toilets may be provided instead of single-sex toilets only where lack of space reasonably precludes provision of single-sex toilet accommodation.

Read full statement at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-lay-new-law-to-halt-the-march-of-gender-neutral-toilets-in-buildings

I was just thinking that if they even start on this legislation it will probably be the most "gender critical" legislation the Tories have put forward.

But unfortunately not only will it be their first it will also be their last. Just hope it passes before Labour gets in.

Totally unrealistic to think they will also find time to bring forward legislation to ammend the EA. If they were going to do it, it would need to have gone through as many stages as this one has.

Yeah. It's his go-to argument.

He blathers on about his daughter a lot. Someone needs to ask him how he'd feel if his daughter had to share a public toilet with an aggressive TW.

Maybe the penny might drop he's spouting crap then.

I walked into the Ladies in a M&S store a year or so before Covid to find a man in a dress with it lifted up to present his genitals to everyone in there.

Some men literally can't keep it in their pants.

And they have the same issues as women have found when using mixed toilets - seat up, piss everywhere, including all down the front of the pan. And if the emergency cord is on the floor where it's meant to be it will be in a puddle of piss.

I now have to use them, unfortunately. I see able-bodied men (I'd say maybe they have a hidden disability but it's unlikely) jauntily walking away from them, sometimes zipping up. I inwardly groan at the mess that will face me there and the lack of choice available to me to find another one.

Not a moan about having to use them, just that I'd like to add my name to the ideal world dream of single-sex disabled loos.

Why on earth are schools exempt from this? 🤬

And oh look, transpeople seem to have got their third space without even having to campaign for it. Some people have all the luck.

Why on earth are schools exempt from this?

I think it's because they are already supposed to be providing proper single sex facilities for age 8yrs plus, not that they're exempt! And they've got space so the 'universal' third option isn't applicable.

Exactly - that's why I posted the link to the guidance as layed out by Safe School Alliance.

If you clicked on the link you will see the guidelines.

That's why i posted the link!

Maybe I am reading it wrong, but to me it looks like this is exactly what people are asking for.

If the toilets are for multiple users, with stalls in a room, they are to be single sex.
Such places may also have single units, for a single person who needs more privacy, or someone with a carer, to use.

In smaller places, like say a cafe or maybe a small pub, you will see these kinds of single rooms, which is what most of them have now, which can be used by either sex, but usually only one person at a time barring someone who needs help.

I suppose it does not require a third space where there is a male and female facility, but a lot of places have these already anyway, not specifically for gender issues but because they can be useful for a lot of people and situations. I suspect you'd still continue to see those in settings where there is a need for them.

Long term, I don't think we'll see nearly as many young transitioners, so I'm not sure those people will even be the main ones needing a single person facility.

Have to admit I never read the analysis of response to the call for evidence re toilet provision. And it would appear that as in other instances there was a well orchestrated response from Stonewall / followers, with Stonewall provided as the main source of "evidence".

Safety concerns for particular groups

86% of responses cited safety concerns for particular groups of people using toilets.

79% of responses mentioned safety concerns for trans/non-binary people and 75% mentioned safety concerns for women. Fewer than 5% of responses mentioned safety concerns for one of the following groups: girls, children, men, disabled people, and boys.

Of the 13,184 responses which mentioned safety concerns for women, 11,646 responses (88% of all responses mentioning safety concerns for women) also mentioned safety concerns for women from particular groups.

Impact of toilet provision upon other issues15,479 responses (88% of all responses) mentioned, or were relevant to, one or more ‘other issue’.

Six other issues were mentioned in, or relevant to, more than two-thirds of responses.

These were:

• Menstruation (12,922 responses, 74% of all responses mentioned this issue).
• Points about the design of toilet facilities/accommodation (including urinals) (12,799 responses, 73% of all responses).
• Family use/children (12,712 responses, 72% of all responses).
• Comments regarding disabled persons toilet provision (12,407 responses, 71% of all responses).
• Reference to the Equality Act 2010 (12,208 responses, 69% of all responses).
• Mention of medical conditions (12,081 responses, 69% of all responses).

Toilet design suggestions

1,548 responses (9% of call for evidence responses) provided comments on toilet design.

75% of toilet design references were made in responses that were read to be supportive of gender-neutral toilets.

958 of these comments (62% of all design comments made in responses) referred to the design of cubicles – in particular, references about gender neutral toilets being of single cubicle design (i.e., with no communal area/corridor outside of cubicles) and raised the point that cubicles should have no gaps above or below the doors. The next most common comment regarding cubicle design was the need for bigger cubicles.

229 responses (15% of all design comments) mentioned the issue of cubicles having no gap under/over the door. Of these, 29 responses referenced having no gap under/over cubicle doors as a way of reducing the risk of predatory behaviour/spying in toilets.
^^
Of the 167 responses which included content relating to making cubicles bigger, 25 responses mentioned the need to accommodate prams, buggies, or pushchairs.

Other design suggestions mentioned in responses were the need for sanitary bins in all toilets (11% of all toilet design suggestions made), making gender neutral toilets a third option alongside male and female toilets (11% of all toilet design suggestions made), and the replacement of urinals with cubicles (8% of all toilet design suggestions made).

13 responses (1% of all toilet design suggestions made) suggested that urinals should be in a separate room or area.

https://www.gov.uk/government/calls-for-evidence/toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-call-for-evidence/outcome/toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-call-for-evidence-analysis-of-responses-received

This sounds great. Is there any chance for retrospective application in workplaces?

Guardian article, apologies if already linked.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/may/06/how-the-single-sex-toilet-law-in-england-will-work

Excellent.

’Announcing the plans, the government said it would “halt the march of gender-neutral toilets”. It said a consultation showed 81% agreed with the intention for separate single-sex toilet facilities and 82% agreed with the intention to provide universal toilets where space allows’.

Let’s hope Labour don’t reverse these common sense back to basic plans.

What gets us with all these articles, is no one mentions the fact that mixed sex toilets are fully enclosed and therefore unsafe in terms of medically vulnerable and assaults. You only need to Google. I asked various organisations (RSPoA, the government etc) if anyone held the national statistics for them but they did not.

There are plenty of reports of bodies found in toilets and of rapes around the country. Particularly in disabled toilets. I started compiling a list but it got too depressing and time consuming. What I did find is the sheer number of able bodied girls, women and boys that were pushed or followed into disabled toilets in shopping centres etc and raped. This corresponds with the numbers in school premises too. And these of course are only the ones reported.

Theres been no risk assessment as far as I am aware on the experimental gender neutral toilets in schools but there are plenty of newspaper reports of how awful they are, particularly for girls.

It’s just been one huge mess recently so thank goodness it is being regulated. I just hope organisations think it through and put the single sex toilets in with door gaps (even if it’s just for economic and hygiene sake) rather than universal toilets in single sex spaces. The gaps are there for so many reasons but the most important is safeguarding.

At least in smaller premises with one toilet, it would be noticeable that a cubicle was locked for a long time. Going forward it needs to be shown that all public toilets can be accessed easily too in an emergency, without firemen bringing equipment. If someone has had a stroke or aneurysm it’s too late.

Yes at work we now have 6 individual full length locked door toilets with sinks etc.

We have lots of classes (adults) at once and we honestly wouldn't know if one was locked all day.

Yep that’s the situation that I am worried about. Many places have room for maybe 5 universal toilets or 3 ladies and 2 mens and a couple of urinals. They really should be the latter option but the guidance put forward doesn’t make it clear at what point single sex are definate.

I cannot understand why they’ve made schools exempt from this legislation. Should have been top of the list surely!

Schools have their own legislation - they haven’t been following it. Probably due to outside influences and the fact that many are operating as academies rather than overseen by local education authorities (the latter more likely to have departments sticking to policies and guidelines).

Below paragraph is from the Guardian article above - are they correct?

Under existing law, transgender people can use the toilet that matches their gender identity but, in 2022, the Equality and Human Rights Commission said that, under the Equality Act, people who do not have a gender recognition certificate could be excluded from single-sex services or facilities, including toilets, if it is “a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim”.

the existing legislation is the equality act of 2010 which obvs predates what the EHRC said in 2022

so no stonewall are doing their usual of lying about that the equality act permits. There has been no change ti legislation at all, its just that stonewall have spent years misrepresenting wgat the equality act says and allows

Just as a laugh - this a photo of a set of unisex toilets that a male headteacher proudly designed for his academy. From a girls’ point of view - the toilet is central to the cubicle with the sanitary bins squashed into one side and the bins are more likely to brush against legs and it’s more difficult to place sanitary stuff without soiling herself or the toilet. If she has blood on her uniform or hands she has to wash it off in the centralised sink in front of boys. But they probably already know she’s on her period from the noises of the sanitary bin etc.

Men think about weeing. They don’t think about the practicalities of changing flooding tampons in a unisex space.

Colourful doors though.

I think the language used is obscuring the issue. “Gender neutral toilets” means MIXED SEX toilets. The former sounds inclusive while the latter makes it clear what’s actually happening.

The legislation basically says toilets have to be either single sex or single person. ie males and females are not mixed.

Honestly I would like to see an additional law that states there MUST be at least one self contained toilet for a single person. Because that covers everyone regardless of sex or gender. Sometimes if you have medical issues you need a self contained toilet - I often find the only option is the disabled toilet, even though I’m not technically disabled.

@Bromelain are ambulant toilets suitable? These are slightly bigger and have handrails but are not disabled toilets. Hopefully the final regulations will encourage more of these. Look out for them in bigger venues as they seem to be at the end of a row.

The one thing I’ve found really odd is the reaction on X. The usual but I have a gender neutral loo at home, trains, planes, in France (or wherever) they are all unisex etc, it’s endless. But why does it bother these people so much if they are single sex. It seems to really get to them. Is it just a general dislike of women asking for something (because it’s women who are most affected)?

The endless references to France baffle me.

There are plenty of single sex toilets in France. I live in France and I can only think of two occasions in the last year that I've had to use a mixed sex toilet. And both times my reaction was, oh, I don't like this.

Yep. Been in France & no problem finding men’s and women’s loos 🤪

i think it’s the women saying no that upsets them, it just doesn’t compute that all women aren’t rushing to put men’s feelings first

they also like to focus on toilets ti try and make women look mean and -buttergasp- prudish! The horror

far easier to focus toilets than justify a male rapist in a women’s prison