Why are some men such dicks?

[Swamphag]

Not really sure this is the best place for this as it's not actually about gender but a few things over last week have had me wondering what the fuck is wrong with men. Apologies if it's long, I just feel like I need to get it out.

Last night I went to a talk on witch-hunts (like the actual hunting of witches in the 1600s not modern day persecution of those who hold views that others don't like) It was really interesting and at the end there was the obligatory any questions section. A bloke raised his hand and said "We often think of women has being tried for witchcraft but you mentioned men [in passing, factually there were some men accused but the numbers pale in comparison with the number of women accused]. How many men were executed?" Fuck's sake can we not even have being hanged for witchcraft without some twat piping up with "What about the men?!?"

Earlier in the week I got a Facebook message from a long forgotten ex. We dated in my early twenties when I was mentally quite fragile. I fell pregnant and due to circumstances had a termination. At the time I felt quite pressurised to do it but was fine and the right decision to make. We split not much long after. It took me quite a long time after things ended to realise how damaging the relationship had been. And that the guy who was "always up for a laugh" actually just enjoyed humiliating me in public. Anyway I healed and am now married, have a lush family, decent job and my life is really good. Turns out the ex's partner has just had a baby (5 weeks ago) He sent a picture of himself and the baby as a way of checking that it was actually me he was messaging (my social media is very private, don't have my picture on profile etc, so it was kind of an "Is it you? This is a picture of me" situation) Without any fucking thought for my feelings. He felt it was ok to just barge into my life after nearly 30 years and go "look at me, look at my life, look at my baby". He had no way of knowing what my life was like. No thought that I might not have been able to have kids or that I might've spent 30 years regretting the termination. No consideration for the way he treated me or thought that actually, I might not want to hear from him. Why on earth didn't he give a second of thought to the fact that he treated me like absolute shit? Nope, he just though "Oh, there's Swaphag on Facebook I'll drop her a message. She'll be thrilled to hear from me"

Also this week, a colleague told me that she'd been at a work thing with her male manager and they'd been doing a "fun" type activity. During the activity he started trying to put her off by saying things like "Ooh, I can see your knickers" "Ooh, I've just accidentally touched your boob" "Ooh, everyone can see down your top" Just basically belittling her in front of potential clients (mostly male) who - from what I can gather - just guffawed along with the tedious bore.

What the fuck is wrong with men that they appear incapable of considering women and their feelings? They really just don't give a fuck about us as humans do they? I've found myself really upset by these things and the fact that every single fucking day they evidence their contempt for us.

Fuck's sake can we not even have being hanged for witchcraft without some twat piping up with "What about the men?!?"

This is now one of my favourite ever mumsnet quotes.

I don’t have anything useful to explain why those men were all being so spectacularly shit but I do agree they were.

Shame Shit Man Three wasn’t told everyone can see his bald patch.

Dunno. Perhaps we should ask Elon for a positive contribution to this discussion.

In general I think men are conditioned to think they are more important and women are there to serve. Or at least my generation (I’m in my fifties) was.
These issues still seem to be prevalent today though with the added extra of porn and even worse violent porn affecting men’s expectations.
Of all the men I have known or know now almost all have been sexist to some degree and many wildly so. I have met a few outright misogynists too.
In fact I can only think of three men I have ever met who weren’t sexist and treated women as equals. Sadly none of these three lovelies were my two ex husbands!

They've allowed and encouraged each other to be like this for hundreds, if not thousands, of years - domineering, loud, self important etc.

I'm not sure they even know how to turn the volume down or change the channel now. They seem to be having a collective identity crisis. Understandable really - it's needs sorting out though so that the end result is harmonious rather than destructive.

OP I was going to say in my line of work I come across plenty of women who are dicks.

But after reading your post - yeah I agree with you 😂

If I've done the maths right the long forgotten ex-boyfriend has fathered a newborn in his mid-fifties. Sounds like a massive backstory which likely features other much older children and a new, much younger wife. Hmm.

I know two men who did this. Both complete dicks and one of them a really nasty bully. He also used to spend any social occasion humiliating his first wife. It was awful.

Sorry, OP. What a horrible week. I agree with a PP that most of them don't know how to turn down the volume or change the channel. To use another metaphor it's the water they swim in and they can't see it. Although after many years my husband does sometimes spot his own mansplaining so it can be done.

I hope you encouraged your colleague to report to HR given that she was subjected to very deliberate sexual harassment.

I was just about to type exactly the same thing. That's definitely sexual harassment.

I’m annoyed on your behalf for all three of those scenarios - but the 2nd one?

That has been a horrible week for you - have some 💐and just be thankful that the ex became an ex a very long time ago and that you have a lovely, lush life - he, despite recent developments, is obviously one very fucked-up individual.

I actually think it's his first child (he's 50 - not quite 30 years since we were together) Got this info from a couple of exchanged messages which I engaged in to be polite before withdrawing from the conversation (Why? Why did I feel the need to interact with him rather than ignore?!?) But yes I suspect his partner must be much younger than him.

@GrumpyPanda sadly, until she makes a complaint or someone else witnesses it and makes a complaint on her behalf, there's not much I can do. She won't make a complaint - he's pushed her boundaries over several years and she puts it down to "well it's just <<insert tedious bore's name here>> isn't it? He doesn't mean anything by it")
He won't ever do this in front of me because he knows I'd happily hang his bollocks on my office wall like a hunting trophy. I live in hope that one day either she wakes up or someone reports him.

Once you spot the sexism and misogyny it’s very difficult to not see it.

I see examples everywhere.
My lovely friend whose husband is having something of a mid life crisis and putting his needs far above my friend’s, and blaming her for them being dragged down by having children.

A women who is world class in her job, whose husband treats her like shit in public, presumably because he is a mediocre man who can’t cope with not being the successful part of the couple.

I can’t think of one man, including those in my family, who doesn’t take advantage of his male status in many ways. Even the lovely ones who changed nappies and actually took a fair part in parenting their own children.

I’m so irritated by women who dismiss it and can’t see it (or choose not to see it?).

The cynic in me says your long forgotten ex wasn't thoughtless. Strange timing to contact you, after all these years.

He won't ever do this in front of me because he knows I'd happily hang his bollocks on my office wall like a hunting trophy.

I do like your style 😎

Strong men don't need to be arseholes.

I'm not sure the other woman has to be the one to make the complaint. You can complain that his sexualised behaviour was making you uncomfortable. I pretty sure that would be a valid complaint in my workplace. Obvs not sure what your policies are or which country you are in

Leaving this here as I just found it for a different thread.

Some classic cases of men who couldn't keep up in a men's group so unilaterally decided to join a women's group and ended up with women leaving (cycling).

Lots of examples where the mansplainer ended up dominating and drove others away and instructors/tutors/others who let them for whatever unaccountable reason.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/chat/4186758-arseholes-who-ve-ruined-groups-and-hobbies

I'm sorry you had such a run of bad experiences recently, OP, and here is the traditional MN token of support .
But I have to say I also really enjoyed? does that sound heartless? reading your posts, you have a great way with writing and your feelings really fizz through.
I'm glad you posted

Regarding your colleague’s experience, is it worth alerting HR so there is witness testimony on record if she decides to report him at a later date? Are there any HR people around who can say whether or not this is useful if a complaint is subsequently logged by the affected person?

@Truthlikeness and @BettyFilous I'm not sure I could actually report it because I wasn't there. The info is second hand from the woman involved so I don't think it would stand up to a harassment investigation unless she reported it at a later date and said "I told Swaphag at the time". I suspect she won't ever say anything because she couldn't do it anonymously. I would hope that at some point somebody witnesses his behaviour and does report it.
I may just have a quiet word with someone in HR to log my concerns in case at some point she does decide to. Thanks for the tip.

The basic problem is that some men never grow up. They remain sniggering little boys their whole lives. You see it all the time. Men who reach about 12 or 13 and stick there until their mid-50s (sitting cross legged while they play video games, sniggering about sex, etc), then around 57 or 58 they morph into miserable, moaning old men who never want to go anywhere or do anything. Many men never grow into adults at all.

He won't ever do this in front of me because he knows I'd happily hang his bollocks on my office wall like a hunting trophy.

😁

I'm sorry you've had a shit week, OP. It has produced a couple of gems like this and the witch-hunt line, at least!

I’m regularly flabbergasted by how so many men seem unable to hear/see themselves and feel embarrassed. I had this with my ex, he saw himself as such a mr nice guy, he was soooo funny and charming and self-deprecating, and that’s who I thought he really was at first - so I just couldn’t understand why he would do things like wait for me to pick up all the grocery or travel bags then walk along beside me carrying nothing. I would say “you need to carry some bags” so he’d take one - not half of them. Then think he was a star for carrying more than he had been originally.

I could not work it out. How could he not see the unfairness? I would have an argument with him about it and he’d say “but I don’t like carrying heavy bags, it hurts my arms”. As if I was doing it because I liked it!

The deep, deep entitlement and view of women as there to serve them - even a woman they claim to love - is astonishing and it blows my mind even more how they can’t see it and think they’re 100% reasonable. I would challenge my ex and get annoyed and then I was on his case and nagging and why should he do what I said 🙄and of course this played out with loads of things and I see it in other men all the time too.

I’m currently dealing with a client who is so full of himself and literally wangs on about how great he is and what a wonderful person he is 🤦🏻‍♀️ and he will not listen to any suggestions I make (from the POV of decades of experience). It could be the most obvious fucking solution but he’ll reject it because I suggested it. It’s exhausting.

@Swamphag if its any help ... 'I actually think it's his first child (he's 50...' think about what being a dad of a newborn at that age with younger partner will be like. Being mistaken for the grandparent when out and about? Sleepless nights and (by then in 60s) being a bit too worn out to keep up with child.

He may have wanted to rattle you by sending this but he is only just at the start of a journey and he's not going to find it the easiest.

Re your colleague. Really well done to be someone she can come to and being ready to stand witness if she does break cover and report this guy. Its wearing when people come to you with problems which you are itching to solve and which you are powerless to get fixed. But you are helping her already.

FWIW my husband (40+ years now) has always seen that men can behave badly and done his best not to be one of them. It really upsets him when it happens. He started ranting about GI about 10 years ago and I was still at the (hangs head) 'what's the fuss, let's be kind' stage until a couple of years ago.

Another one loving your style OP!

My partner of 25 years is a decent non sexist man but even he steps over the line at times without thinking. The other day I opened a new tube of Voltarol and he said to me that I might need to use the cap to open the tube. I told him that as I am 10 years older than him, I was regularly opening tubes whilst he was still in primary school! It's that occasional need to impart unwanted advice which never happens the other way round.

“In general I think men are conditioned to think they are more important and women are there to serve.”

This is the absolute truth of it all. Women are considered chattels and if they start to talk about things that exclusively effect them, men can’t stand the noise and want to redirect us chippy lot to focus back on what’s really important, ie, serving them and their needs.

What you do is point blank refuse to pander to it and challenge the thinking every single time.

Your friend’s ‘it’s just tedious bore isn’t it’ rationalisation made me think of this of this 30 year old article Collinson, M., & Collinson, D. (1996). It's only Dick': the sexual harassment of women managers in insurance sales. Work, Employment and Society, 10(1), 29-56. that sadly still resonates.

He won't ever do this in front of me because he knows I'd happily hang his bollocks on my office wall like a hunting trophy.

I hope you don’t mind, but I am absolutely going to steal this phrase!

And you are right, men are dicks. My normally decent husband is currently on my shit list because he didn’t want me to take a bath (and therefore leave him looking after DC). Then he accused me of something, I can’t actually remember what, fixating on having a bath, I think, despite me not having mentioned it since asking him two minutes earlier. But he has now realised the error of his ways as he is now bathing DC and suggested that I have a bath afterwards while he does the bedtime routine. And the best bit - I didn’t say anything about it. Just a look. Gotta go - he has just shouted down the stairs that he is running the bath for me.