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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour Women - who will you replace Cates, Atkins and Badenoch with?

78 replies

UltraLineHolder · 03/05/2024 21:06

Miriam Cates
Kemi Badenoch
Victoria Atkins
.. and many more.

Those who voted Labour today - who did you vote for that will equal ANY of the women above in standing up for women's rights?

OP posts:
NoWordForFluffy · 04/05/2024 12:04

I think there are a significant proportion of tribal voters out there. However, if the larger proportion of voters are floating, then it's surprising that the parties don't try a bit harder to win those people over. Getting a vote purely because you're not the party in government isn't exactly enthusiastic support!

User2460177 · 04/05/2024 12:12

I used to be a die hard SNP voter and member but left the party and won’t vote for them again (unless I had a gc candidate like JCKC). I would definitely like a Party for Women candidate- we need women’s rights more than ever and the media misrepresents the issues so frequently

User2460177 · 04/05/2024 12:13

Ofcourseshecan · 04/05/2024 10:30

Do you know what your Labour candidates stance is on this issue?

During the consultation on extending the GRA a few years ago, I wrote to my Labour MP opposing the changes.

I started by telling him I was sexually assaulted when I was about 11, by a stranger who pushed me into a confined space. I eventually escaped and hid in a public toilet, women-only of course.

The assault left me with a lifelong fear of confined spaces and of men blocking my escape route. I’ve always just lived with it, but the threat of men in women’s toilets brought that horrible experience into the front of my mind again.

I’d never written about it before and Iwas feeling sick when I wrote. But I had to explain to him why it was important.

The reply I received was the standard “be kind to men” one. I don’t know if he even read what I’d written. He certainly didn’t even mention it.

I do not forgive him.

Edited to add that I will never again vote for him!

Edited

Horrifying. So sorry that happened to you

User2460177 · 04/05/2024 12:32

Otterly2 · 04/05/2024 10:46

Yes - imagine a Labour govt doing ANY of this? No, me neither.

Yes, to be fair the tories have done some great things on the gc issue. We would have been in a much worse place otherwise. They could have done more of course but I recognize what they have done.

Howsoon23 · 04/05/2024 12:36

The labour party's policy which incidently was in the manifesto in 2017 and 2019 is protect single sex rights, wes streeting has already committed to making sure the cass report is implemented in full, and the language about trans rights is far more nuanced and keir was on record last week agreeing with Rosie D that only women have a cervix. Incidently I think it's likely that much of rosie's problem with the leadership is that she broke lockdown rules. I am very fond of Rosie (got to know her before she was an MP) but I don't think she has always helped herself.

There is very little electoral capital to be made for Labour to spend a lot of time on this issue so most people tend to avoid it - there is loads for the tories - hower let's not forget that all of the problems eg institutional capture of public sector organisations and government departments, the almost entire GID scandal and very nearly self ID have happened since 2010 - so I would say the tory party have nothing to be proud of in this area

NoWordForFluffy · 04/05/2024 12:42

Have you a copy of the manifestos please, @Howsoon23? I'm impressed you've committed them to memory.

Maybe you can tell us which version of 'sex' they were using. Was it biological or legal? Keir tends to talk about legal sex (hence his stupid 99.9% comment). I don't trust sex to mean biological, I'm afraid.

TheColourOutOfSpace · 04/05/2024 12:49

I always think of this quote when certain types go on about how the evil Tories don't actually care about women's rights.

I'd rather have my rights protected by Tories being cunning and strategic, instead of losing them by Labour telling me that I should be subservient to men who call themselves women for 'the greater good'.

My contention is that good men (not bad men) consistently acting upon that position [imposing “the good”] would act as cruelly and unjustly as the greatest tyrants. They might in some respects act even worse. Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under of robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies.

The robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some points be satiated; but those who torment us for their own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to heaven yet at the same time likely to make a Hell of earth.

— C.S. Lewis

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 04/05/2024 12:52

Witney are offering 22 year old Georgia Meadows.

Labour Women - who will you replace Cates, Atkins and Badenoch with?
Otterly2 · 04/05/2024 13:28

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 04/05/2024 12:52

Witney are offering 22 year old Georgia Meadows.

Yes indeed they are. No words really are there?

MinorDisaster · 04/05/2024 13:58

Not just 22, he identifies as autistic, trans using female pronouns, and is a recent care-leaver. In my opinion, the local Labour Party, and the main party, too, have a duty of care to this young person given his circumstances, and I'm not at all convinced at that they've demonstrated it by his selection.

I haven't met him, but Georgia might be really intelligent, have lots of potential as a future politician, and be deeply committed to the Labour party with plenty to contribute from his own lived experiences. However, I don't believe he is prospective MP material right now for a constituency of ~84,000. There seem to be too many warning flags about his circumstances. I don't even think that there's a good reason to put someone like him into the election melee 'just to gain experience'. Surely in that sized constituency, Witney could have found somebody else more suitable and ready? I have friends in the area and understand that some of the local party were very unhappy about the decision.

On a general note, the Labour Party candidate selections seem to have been made and announced very well in advance of the Cass report coming out, before key court cases were decided, and before the turn that is being seen in parliament about pulling back on previous ideologically-driven statements. Change is happening relatively quickly. Would Labour still be selecting the same candidates today?

TheColourOutOfSpace · 04/05/2024 17:03

There is very little electoral capital to be made for Labour to spend a lot of time on this issue so most people tend to avoid it.

What makes you say that?? I've seen so many women over the years on Mumsnet and offline say how gutted they are about Labour's woeful stance on gender ideology and they would happily vote for the party if it took a much stronger position on it. I think plenty more people would vote for Labour if it didn't jump onto ideological bandwagons - of which transgenderism is only one aspect.

The message does seem to be seeping in slowly, thanks to plenty of work within the party by LWD etc. As the probability of winning an election increases, the shuffling backwards is slowly taking place. But it shouldn't have taken so long for such a change to happen. The lacklustre responses hardly instill confidence that any promises made now will be properly carried out once Labour come into power.

hower let's not forget that all of the problems eg institutional capture of public sector organisations and government departments, the almost entire GID scandal and very nearly self ID have happened since 2010 - so I would say the tory party have nothing to be proud of in this area

I would say the Tory leadership, at least some of the more libertarian types, thought GRA reform was an easy win. Remember, all political parties have been intensely lobbied for years behind the scenes by gender activists, away from public scrutiny.
I'm sure those in the Tory party who were swayed by soothsayers felt that GRA reform would give them some brownie points in the way same-sex marriage did - the gender activists insisted this was a very minor thing. A thin veneer of progressive politics could improve the party's image.

However, in terms of the public sector and government departments, there seems to be a very deep rot that is extremely concerning for UK democracy. These are institutions that should be staffed by civil servants that dispense their duties based on what the democratically elected government decides to do.

Yet it seems that plenty of staff in these orgs are very left-wing and very ideologically motivated. They seem to think it's their (unelected) role to implement policies as they see fit, irrespective of what the government or the general population think or want. This is why in recent years, even though Tory government ministers have repeatedly made pronouncements that the NHS should stop using language like cervix havers, or schools shouldn't be encouraging children to 'change gender' behind parents' backs, or schools shouldn't be teaching divisive and contested propaganda around race, or the police shouldn't be focused on investigating online arguments - this stuff is still going on.

It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with the UK government. If public sector staff don't like what is being implemented, they should leave their job. Not ignore what's being said and carry on regardless. Their personal politics is not meant to be part of their day job. They are not elected by the public and have no mandate to do whatever they like. Yet they still do. And this is a big problem - if people elect a government to do something, and the government can't implement it properly because the civil service and public sector departments just do their own thing - it's going to cause a lot of issues because eventually the public will feel democratic routes are not working and look towards other solutions.

This unaccountable elite will need to be brought to heel, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Tax payer money keeps coming in, and they continue to do what they like irrespective of whether it's a Labour or Tory government in power.

Dineasair · 04/05/2024 17:40

Howsoon23 · 04/05/2024 11:34

The labour party has come a long way on this - the labour women's declaration has done an excellent job for example, it is in most forums entirely possible to be GC and active in the party Rosie Duffield and Toni A are the highest profile GC MPs - but there are plenty that agree with them - I do feel that many tories - are using it as a political scoring point as opposed to genuinely caring about the issues. See also free speech. KB is good on equalites and obviously does care but rather liz truss like on economics

its a point that I keep coming back to because it has yet to be addressed, the Labour Party won’t gIve Labour women a stall at the party conference, Starmer hasn’t apologised to Rosie Duffield or made sure that there were any consequences for the people who threatened to harm her. They aren’t rowing back on their TWAW position at all as far as I can see, why the hell would I give them my vote?

CremeBruleeLove · 04/05/2024 18:56

Tonia Antoniazzi, Feryal Clark, Marsha de Cordova, Rosie Duffield, Julie Elliott, Mary Glindon, Diana Johnson and Steve McCabe.

CremeBruleeLove · 04/05/2024 18:57

CremeBruleeLove · 04/05/2024 18:56

Tonia Antoniazzi, Feryal Clark, Marsha de Cordova, Rosie Duffield, Julie Elliott, Mary Glindon, Diana Johnson and Steve McCabe.

Whoops Steve slipped in there! He's GC too I think. But a man 👨

morningtoncrescent62 · 04/05/2024 18:58

My best hope is that there will be a few more sensible Labour MPs elected, so that the Labour group in the next parliament has a critical mass that makes it easier for some of the current MPs who've peeped over the parapet to speak out more consistently. In the current parliament we have Rosie Duffield and Tonia Antoniazzi who are openly GC, with Jess Philips, Thangam Debbonaire and Shabana Mahmood occasionally contributing.

With Labour likely to be the next party of government it seems to me we have to do what we can to get more GC MPs elected, and I'd hope any left-leaning GC woman will at least consider voting Labour if they have a decent candidate. I know Labour have been rubbish and they've sold women down the river, and if I was in Kate Osborne's constituency, or Nadia Whittome's, or several others I can think of, there's no way I'd vote for them. For me, a lifelong Labour voter, it basically comes down to having a candidate who knows what a woman is and is prepared to say so, and will put that knowledge to use in protecting women's rights (which my local Labour candidate does, in a marginal constituency).

GerbilStyle · 04/05/2024 20:12

What about susie Izzard? He's a recent Labour protégé'

Floisme · 04/05/2024 20:35

morningtoncrescent62 · 04/05/2024 18:58

My best hope is that there will be a few more sensible Labour MPs elected, so that the Labour group in the next parliament has a critical mass that makes it easier for some of the current MPs who've peeped over the parapet to speak out more consistently. In the current parliament we have Rosie Duffield and Tonia Antoniazzi who are openly GC, with Jess Philips, Thangam Debbonaire and Shabana Mahmood occasionally contributing.

With Labour likely to be the next party of government it seems to me we have to do what we can to get more GC MPs elected, and I'd hope any left-leaning GC woman will at least consider voting Labour if they have a decent candidate. I know Labour have been rubbish and they've sold women down the river, and if I was in Kate Osborne's constituency, or Nadia Whittome's, or several others I can think of, there's no way I'd vote for them. For me, a lifelong Labour voter, it basically comes down to having a candidate who knows what a woman is and is prepared to say so, and will put that knowledge to use in protecting women's rights (which my local Labour candidate does, in a marginal constituency).

My best hope is that there will be a few more sensible Labour MPs elected, so that the Labour group in the next parliament has a critical mass that makes it easier for some of the current MPs who've peeped over the parapet to speak out more consistently.
I like your optimism but what do you think the chances are of being selected by your CLP if you're openly gender critical?
Plus I don't think it's fair to expect newly elected MPs to take the lead on this. I think it's up to the current crop to grow a spine in the next 6 months.

LizzieSiddal · 04/05/2024 21:37

ALL of this nonesense has happened under a Tory goverment. They don’t give a shit about women unless it suits them.

Floisme · 04/05/2024 21:40

That's not the question though.

The thread is asking who in the Labour Party, aside from Rosie Duffield and Antonia Antoniazzi, can we (gender critical women) count on.

EasternStandard · 04/05/2024 21:43

LizzieSiddal · 04/05/2024 21:37

ALL of this nonesense has happened under a Tory goverment. They don’t give a shit about women unless it suits them.

Obviously not the GRA which is the reason this mess exists

Floisme · 04/05/2024 22:18

CremeBruleeLove · 04/05/2024 18:56

Tonia Antoniazzi, Feryal Clark, Marsha de Cordova, Rosie Duffield, Julie Elliott, Mary Glindon, Diana Johnson and Steve McCabe.

Thank you for these names - I'll check them out.

Doodahday88 · 04/05/2024 22:23

To be honest I don't believe Tory women are concerned about women at all, it's just playing to the daily mail audience. On this one issue I agree with their stance and on almost every other issue I don't.

Doodahday88 · 04/05/2024 22:23

Sorry I meant these Tory women ministers, not women who vote Tory generally.

Floisme · 04/05/2024 22:26

That's not the question @Doodahday88
We're trying to collect the names of Labour MPs who can be counted on by gender critical voters. We've had a few, do you have any more?

Dineasair · 04/05/2024 23:54

EasternStandard · 04/05/2024 21:43

Obviously not the GRA which is the reason this mess exists

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