Incorrect guidance on single-sex spaces and gender self-identification - gov.uk asking for examples

[RandySavage]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/call-for-input-incorrect-guidance-on-single-sex-spaces-and-gender-self-identification

Apparently this has not been well publicised - I cannot think why not.

This seems like a great opportunity for the marvellous GC Mumsnetters to have their voices heard. I don't believe there is anyone in the UK better informed on this subject than a reader of the Feminism: Sex and Gender board

I now see that there is already a thread about this, but that thread has gained no attention so I'll leave this up for now.

That is great news and is going to seriously make RMW pissed off.

Thanks for highlighting this, especially as it applies to Scotland as well.

OMG civil service policies state that trans identified people can use the loos of their chosen gender (I know that doesn't make sense)

And Wales. Administration at all levels here like to both adopt policies after the wheels have fallen off everywhere else, and take the approach that if England does it they should do the opposite, regardless of consequences.

This makes me so angry. Women have been highlighting examples for years. No one has been listening and they want us to find time to do it all again?

Thank you very much, this is really helpful. I will forward the link to my employer!

I was just looking to see if this had been mentioned.

I've just filled it in using examples from my local council advising that toilets are to be used on the basis of gender identity, and there were some unisex toilets available "elsewhere in the building". So no single-sex provision available. It took me about 5 minutes to find and upload to the survey.

I’ve also filled in a couple from local universities who also seem keen to say that people can use whatever toilets they feel comfortable with or that align with their gender identity. I’ll do a few more each day. It’s quite shocking (and eye opening) what little regard they have for a persons sex. Noticed that Gendered Intellegence seem to be popping up all over the place too.

Kemi Badenoch was just on Radio 4, and the interview went like this (paraphrased due to memory):
Interviewer: You're asking people to send you examples ...
KB: Well we don't know how widespread this is - it may be a minor issue, we just don't know, so we're looking to find out
Interviewer: but you do acknowledge this is a toxic debate and this could be stirring it up?
KB: are you suggesting that we just look away and say its okay to ignore the law?
Interviewer: er, um

I'm sure there are many, many examples here on MN - schools, universities, NHS, local government, central government ...

@RandySavage thanks for this - have passed on to my WRN contacts. Hopefully it will get spread around!

I heard that, Kemi was generally excellent. She was also clear that it would be very helpful if people could send her examples of where the law is not being followed (and I’m sure examples of resulting harm would also be useful)

I do wonder if a direct, concise email might be better than using the civil service portal - which may filter out some contributions

I also caught the end of Kemi on Radio 4. To paraphrase "I'm not going to not do my job just because someone might say I might be transphobic." Was it Rachel Reeves on after? I didn't have time to hear whether she was similarly harangued by Sarah.

I appreciate it's annoying but this is the govt asking. They won't have seen what you highlighted previously unless you sent those examples to the Minister.

I'm just pleased they are asking. I will do this tomorrow (I work for the council and the mandatory EDI training included transwomen using female toilets)

The CIPD guidance potentially impacts every workplace in the UK and definitely needs reporting!

https://www.cipd.org/globalassets/media/knowledge/knowledge-hub/guides/2023-pdfs/2023-transgender-non-binary-edi-workplace-8363.pdf

@HermioneWeasley definitely report it using the link in the guidance above, it's a very easy reporting process. You just paste that link in on the first page, on the second page you have a box to say where the guidance is wrong/doesn't follow the law (so you say something like "see section 5.4 which states that toilets and changing rooms are to be classified by gender identity"), and then there are a few tickboxes to say what kind of organisation CIPD is. Easy as pie and no need to fill in any personal info of your own at all.

The Royal Surrey Hospital have a contradictory policy. They have a single-sex accommodation policy for dignity and privacy but then go on to say they will house transgender people according to what clothes they wear and their pronouns. Is this the sort of thing we should be reporting?

https://www.royalsurrey.nhs.uk/download.cfm?doc=docm93jijm4n3754

I would say so, Signalbox. And their definition of Dignity is a collection of characteristics which does not replicate the wording in the EA (which may not be mandatory, I suppose), and omits both sex and gender reassignment - which suggests to me a conflation, especially given their policy on accommodating tg patients according to presentation and pronouns.

To treat someone with dignity is to treat them as being of worth, in a way that is respectful of them as valued individuals, being of equal value and worth irrespective of differences such as age, race, culture, gender, sexual orientation, social background, health or marital status, disability, religion or political conviction.

My council had a list of the protected characteristics that included "gender" and "trans inclusion" instead of sex and GR. It wasn't actually marked as a list of the PCs but the remainder of the list was straight out of the EA 2010 so age, religion & belief, disability etc so the substitution of gender for sex was very obvious. This was just listed on a page on their website so I submitted it with a link to the page.

Wow. So many of these examples have been posted on mumsnet.

I've had such fun with this today. I've found half a dozen universities, some schools and colleges, local authorities, hospitals, charities (including the NSPCC), sports organisations... The Met Police was pretty shocking given their recent performance. I also learned a new word, "endosex" - coined in 2000 as an attempt to have an antonym for intersex. It didn't catch on (much).

There seems to be common origins - The Brighton and Hove toolkit, Gendered Intelligence and of course Stonewall.

I've also noticed that organisations are waking up to the fact that their policies are incorrect, there are quite a few that are missing or have been very recently withdrawn. I've downloaded or screenshotted where I can for evidence.

Keep going everyone.

I’ve a feeling they are going to have a deluge of responses 😂