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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS ward policy change.

34 replies

Needanewjobsoon · 30/04/2024 03:05

Has anyone else seen this??

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68923861

Health minister seems to be absolutely on it and wants trans people to be in the ward according to sex. I think...???

This would be huge and used to be something personal to me as my mum is often I hospital or sectioned and would just confuse her more to be told the man in her ward isn't. And they're so vulnerable as most of the time there isn't a nurse physically in the room.

However my other thought was if there's an election will this still go through?

(and also possible I've misread. I'm half asleep!)

Man pushing gender neutral toilet door - stock photo

NHS England charter to stress biological sex when placing patients in wards

Transgender women should not be put on single-sex female NHS wards, the government is proposing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68923861

OP posts:
illinivich · 30/04/2024 08:13

Its relatively easy to have sex markers changed on NHS records, even without a GRC. Its possible that wards may not know the patients sex until they see them in some situations.

Ensuring that sex is sex on nhs records may avoid relying on women having to speaking up.

HelenaWaiting · 30/04/2024 08:14

ScrollingLeaves · 30/04/2024 07:56

I heard this on Radio 4 news this morning.

I was confused because it was made to seem that same sex wards are already allowed, yet as far as I was aware, “annex b” means that transwomen can be in the ward of their choice, no one else on the ward has the right to know if another person on the ward is trans, not even the police ( e.g. in the case of a women who was raped and the police were told there had been no man there).

Can anyone tell me if I am wrong?

It is written into the NHS constitution that people have the right to expect to be treated on a single sex ward, and receive intimate care from someone the same sex as them. Annex B, allowing trans people (but not the rest of us) the right to choose according to their feelz, was added later.

illinivich · 30/04/2024 08:20

Chickenrunning · 30/04/2024 08:09

What I am unclear about is if a single room isn’t available, then would a transwoman be put in a male or female ward?

The Telegraph article suggested that transmen would go on female wards.

Im reading it as single sex wards are single sex, but only when practically possible, and trans people can be placed in single rooms if possible.

So if a space is available on a male ward or single room, the man with gender will be move there.

But im sure different hospitals will read it as whatever they want it to say.

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 30/04/2024 08:22

It may not be the case, but I thought one of the reasons for single rooms was for when someone is close to death, giving the dying person and visitors privacy. If those rooms are given to trans patients, where do the dying patients go?

CosplayingAGrownUp · 30/04/2024 08:35

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 30/04/2024 08:22

It may not be the case, but I thought one of the reasons for single rooms was for when someone is close to death, giving the dying person and visitors privacy. If those rooms are given to trans patients, where do the dying patients go?

Or the ones with infectious diseases... there is generally not enough room to house these and patients often have to die behind curtains on the ward as a result.

I agree with pp that sex marker clarity is of utmost importance. I note that the new RCGP trans policy also calls for this. I really do have hope that it is just a matter of time.

LizzieSiddal · 30/04/2024 08:47

Chickenrunning · 30/04/2024 08:10

Please tell us what Keir says….

Apologies I had to deal with something so only had half an ear to listen to him.

They read out a list of things he’d said previously “TWAW” “It is wrong to say only women have a cervix” his face was a picture!
He was initially very evasive, bringing in the “toxic” debate and I even heard him reference Brianna Ghey to illustrate how toxic the debate had become. He was pushed on what his actual beliefs are and he said he believed that “safe” spaces and NHS wards should be based on biological SEX!!!

He was also asked if he should apologies to Rosie. He didn’t answer that one directly.

It really is worth a watch.

LizzieSiddal · 30/04/2024 08:51

Here is a bit of the interview.

x.com/GMB/status/1785212404416000254

Allthecatseverywhereallatonce · 30/04/2024 09:20

Honestly as an NHS nurse I can't see how this would work in practice. My trust doesn't have enough beds as it is so, we open 'escalation' areas which are essentially repurposed parts of theatre recovery. Guess what? They are completely mixed, picture a nightingale style long ward, then each bed has either sex, any age
As nurses, we have complained as we are very against this. We are told it's exceptional circumstances only this has been in place since July last year.
On my ward the rooms are always full of infectious patients or patients who need protection due to their medical condition.

ScrollingLeaves · 30/04/2024 09:41

HelenaWaiting · 30/04/2024 08:14

It is written into the NHS constitution that people have the right to expect to be treated on a single sex ward, and receive intimate care from someone the same sex as them. Annex B, allowing trans people (but not the rest of us) the right to choose according to their feelz, was added later.

Yes, but if Annex B (transgender trumps “same sex” what then?

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