NHS ward policy change.

[Needanewjobsoon]

Has anyone else seen this??

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68923861

Health minister seems to be absolutely on it and wants trans people to be in the ward according to sex. I think...???

This would be huge and used to be something personal to me as my mum is often I hospital or sectioned and would just confuse her more to be told the man in her ward isn't. And they're so vulnerable as most of the time there isn't a nurse physically in the room.

However my other thought was if there's an election will this still go through?

(and also possible I've misread. I'm half asleep!)

I came on to see if this had been posted. I have to say it all feels a bit headline-grabbing and I can see issues with the implementation.

Under the proposals:

• transgender people, whose gender identity differs from their biological sex, may be provided single rooms, where appropriate

What happens when a single room isn't available? Everyone would prefer a single room, and I know a few CFs personally (both male and female) who would at least consider saying they're trans if they thought it would bag them a single room...

I was recently in ICU and they had plans to move me to a ward as I improved. Obviously critical care would remain mixed but I can imagine the arguments/abuse towards the nurses if patients aren't happy with the ward they're being moved to. They had enough trouble finding me a bed anywhere, and 36 hours later I was still taking up a bed in intensive care for no reason. In the end they discharged me as they couldn't find one (my choice, and it took some pushing, they didn't just chuck me out!).

Nurses don't get paid enough to be on the front line with those difficult conversations...

Ah yes I hadn't read the small print.

I needed to stay in hospital after what should have been a day case... And yes finding any bed anywhere was the plan.

Maybe for those readmitted but being given the single rooms seems completely wrong too. That takes away from being able to use those for normal reasons and becomes a look at me I get single rooms because I'm trans card.

But still public recognition that the twaw isn't okay in every sphere.

Altnough the NHS as a whole is pretty captured isn't it.

One thing that bothers me is that it says trans people will be moved if women request single sex wards.

I don’t think women should have to ask. Single sex should be the default.

As a move, I like it. However I very much note it has suddenly occurred at the same time the horrific statistics on how many times the rules on mixed sex wards have been broken recently because the NHS has been starved of cash. The NHS remains unsafe in the hands of the Conservative Party.

Also agree that women absolutely shouldn’t have to ask. That’s way too much pressure on sick, hospitalised women. It should be automatic.

The guardian coverage of the same issue is 😡-making. At least Labour is on board.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/30/trans-patients-to-be-treated-in-separate-rooms-in-hospital-under-tory-plans

Also
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/30/trans-patients-to-be-treated-in-separate-rooms-in-hospital-under-tory-plans?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

I can see this not being the ideal solution sone might think. First, as a pp already mentioned, most people would prefer a single room and some people are perfectly capable of "faking trans" to get one. Also, single rooms can be rare in some places, potentially affecting availability of care.

And not wanting the NHS to be drawn into culture wars? Don't make me laugh. That rainbow-festooned ship sailed years ago...

Oh sorry, cross post!

Most psychiatric wards have individual rooms anyway.

Ours doesn't Dudes mummy. It's one of the (many) reasons my mum is terrified when she's sectioned as you're stuck with at least one other person who is seriously unwell. She used to get known as bag lady but she took everything with her for fear of things being stolen :(.

That is bad, I am sorry about that, things have changed in many places (well, in London anyway, I have limited experience of general wards elsewhere).

It's a start.

Good headlines, too. 'NHS Constitution based on sex, not gender.'

I heard this on Radio 4 news this morning.

I was confused because it was made to seem that same sex wards are already allowed, yet as far as I was aware, “annex b” means that transwomen can be in the ward of their choice, no one else on the ward has the right to know if another person on the ward is trans, not even the police ( e.g. in the case of a women who was raped and the police were told there had been no man there).

Can anyone tell me if I am wrong?

Hot air.

Patients can already request a same sex ward, the change is it now includes biological sex but how many single person rooms are there?

also, ime patients in these rooms get forgotten.

Doctors can override at any time based on clinical need.

There isn't the facilities, staff or equipment within the NHS.

My MiL was in a MH unit, same sex BUT due to lack of staff, she was sexually abused by a male patient who climbed into bed with her, the units suggestion to stop this happening again was that she is discharged FFS!!!

They didn't have the staff overnight to prevent.

Its GE year, so expect announcements like these that have zero back up, much like the Govt's Dental Plan, private dentists aren't interested, the govt knew this of course.

We're in this dystopian mess as Stonewall etc have been allowed to lie about what the law says, and introduce policy that insists TWAW etc. So the change needs to start with policy in order to filter down to practice.

Remember there are NHS staff in certain trusts who have written policy to ensure that male sex offenders who claim to be women can be in women's wards. That's how dangerous some of these people are.

This is why I'm pissed off when people claim the GRA and EqA are clear in that sex doesnt change and single sex provision is legal.

If the NHS has to make an announcement that womens wards are going to be women only, and that women who request single sex care will not be ridiculed something has gone wrong.

Im happy that the situation is acknowledged now, and solutions found. But i suspected the number of single sex wards may fall.

Not Stonewall or Trust's doing, we ve a Govt & a Health Secretary, they are responsible.

No one else.

They either don't care or have been asleep at the wheel.

In practice when you hardly dare press the bell for a glass of water you are unlikely to ask for a transgender patient to be moved.

Its a bit late for that woman who was sexually assaulted and then lied to by the hospital to the degree she thought she had imagined it, because 'there was no man on the ward'

Keir Starmer is on ITV in a few minutes, talking about this, amongst other things.

R4 something about asking for same sex care, but missed what it was exactly

What I am unclear about is if a single room isn’t available, then would a transwoman be put in a male or female ward?

The Telegraph article suggested that transmen would go on female wards.

Please tell us what Keir says….

I presume the ‘allowed to ask for same biological sex care’ deals with the couple of publicised legal cases recently where women have been denied care at all for checking it would be same sex.

From the BBC website

“For example, same-sex accommodation rights, which have existed for years, can and are breached where there is a clinically urgent need to admit and treat a patient and do not extend to areas such as critical care or accident and emergency.”

Do same sex accomodation rights really exist where there is also Annex B in the small print? And what will happen about Annex B now?

However, in practice the policy is operated on the basis of gender self-identification, based on an annex to the policy, 'Annex B', which tells hospitals that they must allow people to chose to be in opposite-sex wards if they identify as transgender or non- binary.2 Sept 2021
sex-matters.org › Re...PDF
Reviewing Annex B | Sex Matters

What is the NHS Annex B gender?
Annex B of the guidance compromises sex-based rights because it specifies that it is self-identified gender – not sex – that determines where transgender adults and 'gender variant' children should be accommodated.2 Jan 2023
policyexchange.org.uk › gen...
Gender identity ideology in the NHS - Policy Exchange