Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

An open letter to Billy Bragg

46 replies

RoyalCorgi · 28/04/2024 12:54

Dear Billy

Over the past few years, I’ve been following your Twitter interventions on the topic of gender ideology, and in particular your clashes with feminists, with a combination of amusement and puzzlement. Can Billy Bragg really be that dim, I’ve asked myself? Well, today I read your interview in the Observer, and I’ve concluded that Yes, he really can.

Your main argument against feminists who object to gender ideology is “who they are lined up with.” In other words, it’s not the arguments they make that you object to, but the fact that the other people making similar arguments are nasty right-wing Americans. This is a position that even the averagely bright 10-year old would be able to identify as a logical fallacy. (Philosophers refer to it as the “guilt by association fallacy”, if you’re interested, which you’re probably not.)

The trouble with adopting the guilt by association fallacy is that you can quite easily find examples where it’s not very helpful. For example, in the 1970s, the Paedophile Information Exchange, which campaigned for the legalisation of sexual relationships between adults and children, gained a surprising amount of traction in left-wing circles, including the National Council for Civil Liberties and the Campaign for Homosexual Equality. There’s a picture you might have seen of protesters outside the organisation’s conference in Conway Hall in 1977. Many of the protesters were ordinary women, but a number of the men present were members of the National Front, which you don’t need me to remind you was the principal fascist political party in the 1970s.

Now, for a self-respecting left-winger, that presents quite a dilemma, doesn’t it? You’re either on the same side as the people wanting to legalise sex with children, or you’re on the same side as the fascists. From the perspective of 2024, neither looks palatable. The only solution – and you’re not going to like this – is to actually think about the issue and work out, from first principles, the right moral position. For someone like you, who isn’t used to thinking critically, it’s going to be a lot of hard work. I want to say that ultimately you’ll find it rewarding, but to be honest, I’m not sure that’s true. You are a tribal thinker, and finding yourself outside your tribe is uncomfortable.

People who are capable of thinking rationally, and have a basic grasp of morality, are able to understand, without too much effort, that sterilising vulnerable young people, encouraging them to remove body parts and putting them on a lifetime of harmful medication, is a bad thing. They also understand that allowing men to play in women’s sports, or putting violent rapists in women’s prisons, is a bad thing. The fact that you are not able to grasp this shows the degree to which tribal thinking has a hold on you, and how difficult it would be for you to abandon it.

Perhaps I could persuade you by pointing out that there are left-wingers on both sides of this debate? True, many on the left – much of the Labour Party, the SWP, the Greens – have thrown in their lot with the gender ideologues. But on the gender-sceptic side, you have people like Allison Bailey, a Black working-class lesbian with impeccable left-wing credentials, as well as Professor Jo Phoenix, a left-leaning criminologist (also a lesbian, of course), Julie Bindel, a longstanding socialist and campaigner against male violence, Selina Todd, a professor of working-class history, and very many others, not forgetting the organisation Woman’s Place UK, founded by a group of trade unionists and Labour Party members.

I suspect, however, you think that none of these really count. Why? Because they’re women, and you are, at heart, a misogynist. At this point I imagine you protesting: how can I be a misogynist? I don’t hate women. I’m married to a woman. I have friends who are women. I support women’s right to abortion and all sorts of other stuff like equal pay.

But misogyny isn’t just about hating women. In your case, you suffer from a failing common to lots of left-wing men: you just don’t think women or their opinions are important. You are not interested in anything women have to say, even when – or especially when – they are talking about their own rights. You concur, perhaps unconsciously, with the 14th rule of misogyny: “Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.”

If left-wing men spoke up for the gender-sceptical side, you might listen. But almost none have, which no doubt makes you feel even more certain that you’re right. In fact, the only time that men – heterosexual men at any rate – seem to see feminists’ viewpoint on this is when they have daughters. This enables them to grasp the idea that, if you allow any man to legally identify as a woman, and therefore use women’s spaces, the consequences are inevitably harmful. Perhaps if you had a daughter, you too would feel queasy at the thought of her being forced to share a changing room with a 6ft 3in, 18-stone, 45-year old hairy-bollocked bloke. But you only have a son, and seemingly lack the imagination or empathy to care about the safety of young women in the abstract.

I don’t think I have any hope of persuading you through an appeal to either reason or morality, because you are neither a rational thinker nor a moral one: your thinking is purely tribal. You are, however, a vain man, so instead, I will appeal to your vanity. And I will do this by asking a simple question: do you want to be on the right side of history, or the wrong one?

Let’s go back to what I said earlier about the Paedophile Information Exchange. All those left-wingers who cosied up to them don’t look so great now, do they? (Harriet Harman knows that the NCCL's affiliation with PIE will be in her obituary.) Whereas those who were brave enough to oppose them have been triumphantly vindicated. Or look at all those left-wing figures who lent their support to eugenics: George Bernard Shaw, Sidney and Beatrice Webb, Harold Laski, among others. Some modern socialists may try to gloss over their predecessors’ support for this dangerous ideology, later espoused so enthusiastically by the Nazis, but, well, it’s embarrassing, isn’t it?

And look: the tide is now turning on gender ideology. The Cass Review has seen a rapid volte-face performed by the Labour Party, the Scottish government and even Stonewall. A few die-hard extremists have attacked Cass, including, naturally, GenderGP and Mermaids. (Incidentally, I’d put money on Mermaids not still being here at the end of 2024.) You have chosen to throw in your lot with the extremists which, from where I’m standing, seems an unwise decision. At the moment you resemble a man stranded at sea desperately trying to swim to shore against an outgoing tide. The sad truth is that you are, very soon, going to find yourself on the wrong side of history, along with the eugenicists and the PIE supporters. And for a man of your vanity, I don’t think you’re going to find it a nice place to be.

So here’s the choice that faces you, Billy: stick with the half of your tribe that is stubbornly resisting the overwhelming scientific and moral arguments against gender ideology, or join the half that is performing a reverse ferret while pretending that this is what they thought all along.

In your position, I know what I’d do. But then, I’m much much cleverer than you.

Sincerely yours,

Corgi

OP posts:
MILTOBE · 28/04/2024 13:07

Brilliant.

I'm sure he'll read it, but I doubt he'll take any notice. He has his masculine blinkers on.

PineappleTime · 28/04/2024 13:12

Bragg is just a very boring man who thinks he's cleverer than he is. Ironically given the allegations of GC women being 'dinosaurs' he is the dinosaur. Too fixed in his 1980s nostalgic understanding of right and wrong sides to see that the world has moved a long way on and this issue is not a 'which side do you want to join' issue. He is so very irrelevant.

CocoapuffPuff · 28/04/2024 13:13

He might listen, if he thinks you're a boy Corgi......

MrsOvertonsWindow · 28/04/2024 13:14

👏👏

MILTOBE · 28/04/2024 13:15

CocoapuffPuff · 28/04/2024 13:13

He might listen, if he thinks you're a boy Corgi......

Yes, you should have started with: "Man here."

YukNo · 28/04/2024 13:15

He’s a ridiculous man. Imagine being related to him. You’d be mortified wouldn’t you 😏

Thelnebriati · 28/04/2024 13:17

You are not interested in anything women have to say, even when – or especially when – they are talking about their own rights.

Especially common among men who see themselves as the default humans, and women as 'other' who are demanding extra rights.

AtrociousCircumstance · 28/04/2024 13:20

And apologise profusely to Louise Distrass while you’re at it, you crass misogynistic product of your time.

medianewbie · 28/04/2024 13:23

@RoyalCorgi that's phenomenal 👏

maltravers · 28/04/2024 13:25

Send it to the observer letters section Corgi! You never know…

lanadelgrey · 28/04/2024 13:37

Definitely send letters re the interview - I would imagine those will come to his attention. But short, I think they want 300 words maximum, and picking one pertinent point.
Letters to the editor -quantity as we as publishable quality is how they gauge readers interest in topics. Ok you might not be a regular reader of a particular paper but they aren’t going to know that.
They are more likely to publish one or a couple of letters on a subject if lots of similar ones have been sent!

duc748 · 28/04/2024 13:50

maltravers · 28/04/2024 13:25

Send it to the observer letters section Corgi! You never know…

Yes, this! Great letter! 👏

RoyalCorgi · 28/04/2024 14:05

Thanks for the suggestion of sending it to the Observer, but they'll never publish a letter of that length. Always a good idea for people to write in, though. I only wrote it because, as what Stewart Lee would describe as a "furious old lady", I wanted to get it out of my system.

OP posts:
IDoNotConsentToAstonResearch · 28/04/2024 14:11

YukNo · 28/04/2024 13:15

He’s a ridiculous man. Imagine being related to him. You’d be mortified wouldn’t you 😏

Depends if you’re trying to be a singer too and he’s getting you gigs.

molotovcupcakes · 28/04/2024 14:13

Well that's the trouble with taking up with fasionable causes, they don't last long but he just couldn't resist the chance to have a go at women.

Charliebrow · 28/04/2024 14:57

Love it!

BonfireLady · 28/04/2024 15:02

RoyalCorgi · 28/04/2024 14:05

Thanks for the suggestion of sending it to the Observer, but they'll never publish a letter of that length. Always a good idea for people to write in, though. I only wrote it because, as what Stewart Lee would describe as a "furious old lady", I wanted to get it out of my system.

Could you write a cut down version?
It would be great to see a counter-viewpoint being published.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 28/04/2024 15:10

👏👏👏
Brava! It felt cathartic just reading that!

Snowypeaks · 28/04/2024 15:25

Top work, @RoyalCorgi!

IcakethereforeIam · 28/04/2024 15:30

Fabulous 👌

CorruptedCauldron · 28/04/2024 15:44

Such a satisfying letter, thank you Corgi. Billy needs to understand right now that his guilt by association schtick is utter bollox. If all the nice left-wing people say the Earth is flat, but a murderous arse like Putin says it’s round, I’m going to have to agree with Putin. That doesn’t make me an evil bigot cosying up with the wrong sort of person. It means I used my own critical thinking and drew my own conclusion instead of blindly going along with my tribe. It doesn’t mean I have anything in common with a murderous dictator, for crying out loud. I despise Putin with every fibre of my being.

Women who have criticised gender ideology aren’t fascists. Nor are they bigots. Nor are they cosying up with wrong-uns. Billy is big enough and ugly enough to know this but he needs an Us and Them cause to cling to as then it provides material for his protest songs and helps him stay relevant.

Billy, it’s like Levi Stubbs’ Tears never happened. Sort yourself out, mate.

duc748 · 28/04/2024 16:07

Billy, it’s like Levi Stubbs’ Tears never happened. Sort yourself out, mate.

Used to love that song. Seems bitterly ironic now, doesn't it?

AReasonablePerson · 28/04/2024 16:11

Love it!

CorruptedCauldron · 28/04/2024 16:21

duc748 · 28/04/2024 16:07

Billy, it’s like Levi Stubbs’ Tears never happened. Sort yourself out, mate.

Used to love that song. Seems bitterly ironic now, doesn't it?

It really does. The empathy he showed in that song is sadly lacking now.

Pudmyboy · 28/04/2024 16:35

That is one brilliant letter @RoyalCorgi!
Especially loved this bit:
–actually think about the issue and work out, from first principles, the right moral position. For someone like you, who isn’t used to thinking critically, it’s going to be a lot of hard work.
Marvellous! I am in awe of your eloquence!💐