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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Authenticity

41 replies

SaltPorridge · 24/04/2024 20:00

In looking at the trans promotional material in school, I noticed that authenticity is frequently invoked. The teenage boy who becomes a drag queen is "being true to himself". The girl who identifies as non-binary is "living authentically".
The kids are encouraged to make posters with slogans such as "be yourself".
Has anyone written a critique of this feature of trans propaganda? I can think of several problems but haven't time to articulate my thoughts succinctly.

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/04/2024 20:02

Ironic isn't it? Claiming to have changed sex is the very definition of inauthenticity!

Screamingabdabz · 24/04/2024 20:05

Living authentically is fully accepting who you are including all the good bits and bad bits. Constantly living a performance of Priscilla Queen of the Desert is not being authentic.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2024 20:17

In order to live as your authentic self it is necessary to change everything about yourself, including your name, pronouns and clothes, your hormones, and in extreme cases, your reproductive organs.

Nope, me neither.

JustSpeculation · 24/04/2024 20:35

JK Rowling has a very perceptive treatment of teenage "authenticity" in "The Casual Vacancy". It comes across as a form of vanity.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2024 20:40

JustSpeculation · 24/04/2024 20:35

JK Rowling has a very perceptive treatment of teenage "authenticity" in "The Casual Vacancy". It comes across as a form of vanity.

That's the only one of her books I haven't read.

I must get round to it.

The34Bus · 24/04/2024 20:40

Authentic, but fully dependent on the validation of others?

Surely living authentically is living the life we would lead if no-one was there to comment?

PermanentTemporary · 24/04/2024 20:44

Authentic is unfalsifiable.

SaltPorridge · 24/04/2024 20:52

JustSpeculation · 24/04/2024 20:35

JK Rowling has a very perceptive treatment of teenage "authenticity" in "The Casual Vacancy". It comes across as a form of vanity.

Thanks, I will read it.

My instinctive reaction is that it is so superficial. Compared with, say, identifying into a musical or dance community, or a traditional religion.

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PriOn1 · 24/04/2024 21:06

To genuinely live authentically, those who hate their sexed body would learn to live with it and, even if they couldn’t overcome that hate, learn to accept that their body is healthy and functional and can’t change in the way they want it to.

I was reading a comment today about the Cass report and the fact that she had noted that the evidence that existed regarding psychological treatment (as opposed to physical transition) was just as poor as the evidence for medication, but of course that was inevitable. Nobody was allowed to assess, for example, cognitive behavioural therapy in these patients, because that wasn’t affirmation. There are various, relatively recent treatments that have been introduced for other mental health problems, but as it was imperative to pretend this wasn’t a mental health problem, they couldn’t be assessed.

Living authentically is about coming to terms with who you actually are. It might be that you are a deeply feminine man who loves women’s clothing, and if you are, that’s okay. That would be authenticity. Cos-playing womanhood, claiming that you are one, when you know you’re not is the opposite, which is why it hurts so much when reality is pointed out. If you read men writing about how it feels to be misgendered, it’s obvious they are constantly on edge, hoping it doesn’t happen. There is nothing authentic at all about their experience.

MikkyMo · 24/04/2024 21:07

James Lindsey did one of his podcasts on authenticity.
I'll try to find it.

FeckOffAstonUniversityDoxingDepartment · 24/04/2024 21:13

I suspect it’s a watered down, PoMo mishmash of Authenticity in philosophy/ psychology: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authenticity_(philosophy)
and Expressive Authenticity in art, filtered through about ten sentences worth of Judith Butler (no one can stomach any more than that), only rather than make art, they make social media presence which is why they have to wang on about themselves all the time, they are the medium, message and material.

Unfortunately there is very little originality left so they talk about how authentic they are whilst looking like rubbish copies of stuff from Gen X.

Authenticity (philosophy) - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authenticity_(philosophy)

Swashbuckled · 24/04/2024 21:25

Surely, living authentically would be something like:
“I wish I was a woman, but I’m not. That makes me sad. Ah, well.”

parietal · 24/04/2024 21:47

the whole 'find yourself / be your true self' motto pops up throughout popular culture (disney / TV etc) as if that is a cure to everything. the main character is miserable and then when they 'find themself' they become happy (see Moana, Frozen etc).

it is also an easy slogan to sell on notebooks and t-shirts etc. trite and meaningless.

the problem is, people don't really have a 'true self'. there simply isn't a magically nugget inside you that will make you happy when you find it. Most people have multiple different types of self (mother, daughter, friend, boss etc) and throughout a lifetime can grow into new roles in new ways. So the myth of 'find yourself' is just trying to sell a quick solution to a unhappiness that bears no relation to what really makes people content.

Empowermenomore · 24/04/2024 22:22

I see two different paths to approach authenticity in this context. Firstly the ‘heroes quest’ in myths when in order to solve an existencial challenge, one has to go out in the big wild world and find a path that makes sense to them. This will appeal to teens as it is part of their human development to find their place in the world, etc. Secondly, the linguistic and cognitive twist that is particular of the queer/trans ideology: to be one’s authentic/truer self, one needs to falsified reality to match oneself idea of a just and fitting narrative. This will also appeal to teens as they are on the shifting coats period, exploring is exciting and normal while growing up plus the rebellion aspect. Thats why its very important to provide safe challenges to teens, nature activities, sports, etc

ErrolTheDragon · 24/04/2024 22:36

They're not using the word 'authentic' authentically.

BigBadaBoom · 24/04/2024 23:24

Imho it's pretty much basic Randian libertarianism presented as minority groups fighting for recognition. Progressives have all become proper little Howard Roarks, living their best lives free from the old-fashioned social restrictions holding them back and becoming the special people they always knew themselves to be.

I think maybe there's been too much focus on the idea that the TRAs etc are left-wing politically. I'm starting to wonder how much of this plays into the weird hybridisation of left-wing to right-wing conspiracy culture we see now. The extremely emotional and hyperbolic rejection of the Cass report by some people (e.g. some in the Green Party). The claim that (sub-standard) evidence has been rejected because of a secret political agenda, not because the evidence was poor. The focus on living outside the mainstream narrative whilst simultaneously hating the mainstream narrative for not validating them. These are the behaviours of conspiracy theorists.

Mumoftwo1312 · 24/04/2024 23:36

Too much navel gazing. What even is one's "authentic self", especially when you're (say) under 30 and going to keep changing a lot as you grow older?

viques · 24/04/2024 23:55

But saying someone is something that they can never be is not them living an authentic life, it is living a wished for life. And if wishes were horses…….

Delphinium20 · 25/04/2024 04:04

Trans is about artifice. Trans is escape. Trans is wishing you were someone you can never be. Trans is trickery and delusion.

That is the opposite of authenticity.

LilyBartsHatShop · 25/04/2024 04:44

I think it's a very cynical use of stories told by gay men and lesbian women who lead difficult lives pretending to be straight.

SaltPorridge · 25/04/2024 07:09

LilyBartsHatShop · 25/04/2024 04:44

I think it's a very cynical use of stories told by gay men and lesbian women who lead difficult lives pretending to be straight.

I guess that's a part of it, but in those cases also, the moral weight atttached to truth and authenticity is cruel.
Setting aside the trans promotion, a problem I see with rainbow clubs is twelve year olds declaring their sexuality. Some matters are private and kids can't judge the consequences of making it public.

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popebishop · 25/04/2024 07:15

Not trans people in general, but the trans self-id ideology itself is based on being dishonest. Not saying what they mean by "woman". Not attempting to communicate in good faith. Not explaining how they believe sexes can match genders and why people need to change their bodies because of this.

That's fake, not authentic.

FeckOffAstonUniversityDoxingDepartment · 25/04/2024 08:10

SaltPorridge · 25/04/2024 07:09

I guess that's a part of it, but in those cases also, the moral weight atttached to truth and authenticity is cruel.
Setting aside the trans promotion, a problem I see with rainbow clubs is twelve year olds declaring their sexuality. Some matters are private and kids can't judge the consequences of making it public.

Those same girls get dragged when most of them start dating boys at 15/16.

CantDealwithChristmas · 25/04/2024 08:26

The concept of living authentically is such a modern and - tbh - strange one. Until about 50 years ago, no one ever thought they had to make efforts to live 'authentically' because they already were. For most of human history, we have seen ourselves in terms of our community - whether that was family, village, parish, tribe, nation or whatever - and our self-concept existed in relation to others.

Now, hypercapitalism and the fragmentation of community and religion have made extreme narcissism not only tolerable but the guiding value of human life. We no longer 'ask what we can do for our community' but all of our focus is on finding /expressing our 'true selves' (which is meaningless; we are nothing other than our true selves every hour of every day).

Trans is the most extreme and terrible, logical end point of this culturally approved narcissism. Young people are encouraged to spend countless hours, not socialising or volunteering in their communities, but in endless contemplation of themselves - what gender am I? What do I feel? What will make me, and only me, happy?

Humans are social animals. The only logical conlcusion of all this navel gazing is loneliness, anxiety and finally self-obsessed mental misery. And that is trans. And when you get into that dark place, guess what? There's a whole host of 'doctors' and 'therapists' willing to sell you drugs and lies to 'achieve your real self'.

it is intensely sad.