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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Authenticity

41 replies

SaltPorridge · 24/04/2024 20:00

In looking at the trans promotional material in school, I noticed that authenticity is frequently invoked. The teenage boy who becomes a drag queen is "being true to himself". The girl who identifies as non-binary is "living authentically".
The kids are encouraged to make posters with slogans such as "be yourself".
Has anyone written a critique of this feature of trans propaganda? I can think of several problems but haven't time to articulate my thoughts succinctly.

OP posts:
CantDealwithChristmas · 25/04/2024 08:42

Empowermenomore · 24/04/2024 22:22

I see two different paths to approach authenticity in this context. Firstly the ‘heroes quest’ in myths when in order to solve an existencial challenge, one has to go out in the big wild world and find a path that makes sense to them. This will appeal to teens as it is part of their human development to find their place in the world, etc. Secondly, the linguistic and cognitive twist that is particular of the queer/trans ideology: to be one’s authentic/truer self, one needs to falsified reality to match oneself idea of a just and fitting narrative. This will also appeal to teens as they are on the shifting coats period, exploring is exciting and normal while growing up plus the rebellion aspect. Thats why its very important to provide safe challenges to teens, nature activities, sports, etc

This is a great comment BUT in the Quest story (one of the oldest stories known in humanity, found in all cultures), the hero/ine always returns home stronger and takes his/her place in his rightful role in the community. The whole point of the quest is not just finding the pot of gold or killing the dragon or whatever - the more important fulfilment is that the hero is able to return to the community and therefore the community returns to health.

eg Odysseus eventually comes home and after much struggle takes his rightful place as king and gives wealth to his community who are overjoyed he is back. Beowulf, Frodo, etc etc etc.

The outcome of the quest is the resituation back in the community, and the mutual benefits between the community and the hero.

Whereas in our modern cult of narcissistic authenticity, the hero's duty to their community does not exist. Instead, the community exists only as bit players in the hero's life, existing only to 'validate' the adopted identity of the hero.

We mess with our foundational myths at our risk. The modern narcissistic take on the hero's quest is a one-way ticket to mental illness, isolation and misery.

RainWithSunnySpells · 25/04/2024 09:16

When I have read some of the very open and detailed discussions about tyransition that are available in the interwebs, incuding sugical complications and sometimes the distancing from their family, one thing has sprung to my mind and that is the distruction of the person that they 'used to be.'

If you look at how many write about feeling uncomfortable in their own skin (for whatever reason) and how transition is latched onto as the answer for this, it is quite frightening. The path to destroy the 'old self' can become so brutal, not only on their own body (necrosis, fistulas, infection, so on and so on) but on their family.

It's not a hero's quest, it's a tragedy and the final words are so often said with sad eyes and a forced voice: 'No regrets.'

FeckOffAstonUniversityDoxingDepartment · 25/04/2024 09:27

Yes, see ‘deadname’ as an example.

Plenty of people change names but if you aren’t trans you just refer to the previous as your birth name or old name

Detransitioner Ritchie (TulipR) has some pretty insightful ideas re: the quest for self reinvention and the hatred displayed at anyone who even mentions the old self.

FranticFrankie · 25/04/2024 09:31

Some great posts here
How can it be ‘authentic’ when so much is rooted in denial?
When I think of the Transperson that I know, they have transformed their presentation into the very opposite of something they always claimed to be.
I know it’s not about me, but I can’t help but feel sad for who they ‘used to be’ but try to be loving and supportive.

RainWithSunnySpells · 25/04/2024 09:37

Sorry about the typo in my post, it's too late to edit it now. 😐

Helleofabore · 25/04/2024 09:41

Once you destabilise words such as woman, man and tolerant, words such as authentic are also up for grabs in the destabilisation efforts.

StainlessSteelMouse · 25/04/2024 10:09

The outcome of the quest is the resituation back in the community, and the mutual benefits between the community and the hero.

Whereas in our modern cult of narcissistic authenticity, the hero's duty to their community does not exist. Instead, the community exists only as bit players in the hero's life, existing only to 'validate' the adopted identity of the hero.

That's a great point that's often missed out in recent takes on the hero's journey.

Luke Skywalker doesn't start out as a hero. He fucks up constantly, but grows and learns and becomes a hero. And a huge part of that is the sacrifices he's willing to make for others.

Peter Parker is consumed by guilt at failing to save Uncle Ben's life, and that's what drives his compulsion to save everyone. The snarky wisecracking persona of Spider-Man is a mask for that guilt.

I sometimes feel our current year version is lots of people who identify strongly with Harry Potter as the neglected child who enters a magical world with a found family who affirm how special he is, but they don't want Harry's hard choices, and how he responds to those hard choices is what makes him special.

Terref · 25/04/2024 10:20

CantDealwithChristmas · 25/04/2024 08:26

The concept of living authentically is such a modern and - tbh - strange one. Until about 50 years ago, no one ever thought they had to make efforts to live 'authentically' because they already were. For most of human history, we have seen ourselves in terms of our community - whether that was family, village, parish, tribe, nation or whatever - and our self-concept existed in relation to others.

Now, hypercapitalism and the fragmentation of community and religion have made extreme narcissism not only tolerable but the guiding value of human life. We no longer 'ask what we can do for our community' but all of our focus is on finding /expressing our 'true selves' (which is meaningless; we are nothing other than our true selves every hour of every day).

Trans is the most extreme and terrible, logical end point of this culturally approved narcissism. Young people are encouraged to spend countless hours, not socialising or volunteering in their communities, but in endless contemplation of themselves - what gender am I? What do I feel? What will make me, and only me, happy?

Humans are social animals. The only logical conlcusion of all this navel gazing is loneliness, anxiety and finally self-obsessed mental misery. And that is trans. And when you get into that dark place, guess what? There's a whole host of 'doctors' and 'therapists' willing to sell you drugs and lies to 'achieve your real self'.

it is intensely sad.

I've rewritten this several times to try and make it clearer but it seems to be getting less clear with every pass. Hopefully getting to the nub of it:

Chimeric totems like a 'true self' seem to me sort of sacred brainfarts. There's a religious intensity to the idea - a pursuit of an impossible goal, something that is always beyond the here-and-now. People hooked on the promise of something better than bog standard here-and-now reality.

Claiming the self is a fiction/construct (which one could say has characterised so much thinking over the past hundred odd years - from Darwin, Freud, post modernism - we could even go back to Galileo!) seems to lead some to suggest that there must therefore be another 'self' that is 'true', hidden underneath the 'false' self. (A false dichotomy).

The 'true self' doctrine seems to reject the suggestion that self is constructed (by society/history/narrative/culture/context) and cling to the idea that a self is solid, true, immortal.

I guess at base it's just seeking to resurrect a solid, true, permanent idea of 'self', because the idea of a 'self' being transient is difficult to accept?

Similarly, 'Genderism' posits that 'gender' as a social construct is a fiction that can be deconstructed/swept aside, and simultaneously claims the existence of a 'true' 'perfect' 'sacred' gender, known only to the individual.

Humans really struggle with uncertainty and are very attached to the idea of a self and a soul. We find it very hard to accept that so much of life is unknown, negotiable, shifting, transient, predicated on delicate and interconnected networks.

At root it's a plain old escape from mortality, I suppose?

Terref · 25/04/2024 10:22

I wonder how much 'community' has become morphed into 'audience', and to what extent social media is impacting on that.

MagpiePi · 25/04/2024 10:27

RainWithSunnySpells · 25/04/2024 09:37

Sorry about the typo in my post, it's too late to edit it now. 😐

I think the term tyransition sounds pretty authentic.

CantDealwithChristmas · 25/04/2024 10:45

Terref · 25/04/2024 10:20

I've rewritten this several times to try and make it clearer but it seems to be getting less clear with every pass. Hopefully getting to the nub of it:

Chimeric totems like a 'true self' seem to me sort of sacred brainfarts. There's a religious intensity to the idea - a pursuit of an impossible goal, something that is always beyond the here-and-now. People hooked on the promise of something better than bog standard here-and-now reality.

Claiming the self is a fiction/construct (which one could say has characterised so much thinking over the past hundred odd years - from Darwin, Freud, post modernism - we could even go back to Galileo!) seems to lead some to suggest that there must therefore be another 'self' that is 'true', hidden underneath the 'false' self. (A false dichotomy).

The 'true self' doctrine seems to reject the suggestion that self is constructed (by society/history/narrative/culture/context) and cling to the idea that a self is solid, true, immortal.

I guess at base it's just seeking to resurrect a solid, true, permanent idea of 'self', because the idea of a 'self' being transient is difficult to accept?

Similarly, 'Genderism' posits that 'gender' as a social construct is a fiction that can be deconstructed/swept aside, and simultaneously claims the existence of a 'true' 'perfect' 'sacred' gender, known only to the individual.

Humans really struggle with uncertainty and are very attached to the idea of a self and a soul. We find it very hard to accept that so much of life is unknown, negotiable, shifting, transient, predicated on delicate and interconnected networks.

At root it's a plain old escape from mortality, I suppose?

I love this and yes I agree and I also think this is why the Abrahamic monotheist religions (of which I follow one) have been so incredibly successful: because they give adherents a clear way of thinking about the self, the soul and the responsibilities of an individual wihin their community: responsibilities of care, empathy, humility, forgiveness etc. Thus, these religions provide an incredibly useful way for humans to regulate themselves and to rub along with each other in communities, regardless of whether one literally believes that a child was born of a virgin or that burning bushes can talk (both highly doubtful).

The West has had a downer on religion for a while now, which is fine, but we still haven't lost that innately human yearning for meaning, for something beyond the flesh. But, now, without religious rules to reassure them, many people have to make it up as they go along, which is how some very lonely, miserable, vulnerable people end up thinking they have a gendered soul and they can reach it if they only wear the right clothes and get the right surgery and get everyone else to believe in it too. And then there's an entire capitalist industry ot stuff they can buy to help them get there.

In my humble opinion - many people know that infamous Nietsche quote, God is Dead. Very few people know the very next sentences: "God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us?"

CantDealwithChristmas · 25/04/2024 10:49

StainlessSteelMouse · 25/04/2024 10:09

The outcome of the quest is the resituation back in the community, and the mutual benefits between the community and the hero.

Whereas in our modern cult of narcissistic authenticity, the hero's duty to their community does not exist. Instead, the community exists only as bit players in the hero's life, existing only to 'validate' the adopted identity of the hero.

That's a great point that's often missed out in recent takes on the hero's journey.

Luke Skywalker doesn't start out as a hero. He fucks up constantly, but grows and learns and becomes a hero. And a huge part of that is the sacrifices he's willing to make for others.

Peter Parker is consumed by guilt at failing to save Uncle Ben's life, and that's what drives his compulsion to save everyone. The snarky wisecracking persona of Spider-Man is a mask for that guilt.

I sometimes feel our current year version is lots of people who identify strongly with Harry Potter as the neglected child who enters a magical world with a found family who affirm how special he is, but they don't want Harry's hard choices, and how he responds to those hard choices is what makes him special.

Yeah I agree and that's a bad, superficial reading of Harry Potter by the current year generation. Because another important thing about Harry Potter's character arc (and the character arcs of Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, Snape, Neville and a bunch of other characters that I can't be arsed to list here) is the importance of making sacrifices for the good of the whole community, even when one is not immediately recognised for those sacrifices, is misjudged, or even hated for a while. The entire series is ultimately about going from being a kid and seeing things in black and white, to becoming an adult and understanding that everyone has shades of grey, and that one's duty to one's wider community is more important and ultimately more fulfilling that one's duty to 'find oneself' or whatever bla bla.

Beowulfa · 25/04/2024 11:52

Enjoyed your posts on this thread CantDealwithChristmas.

The world seems increasingly reduced to trite greetings cards messages like "live your best life". What does that actually mean? If you have a tattoo at 18, but don't like it 20 years later, which is the authentic reaction?

RainWithSunnySpells · 25/04/2024 12:45

MagpiePi · 25/04/2024 10:27

I think the term tyransition sounds pretty authentic.

I think the combination of my fat fingers and the tiny buttons did an accidental 'linguistic transphobia’. What will the data scrapers and peeps at Aston Uni think!?

It's either that or I have accidentally invented a new portmanteau where one transitions into a tyrant!

MagpiePi · 26/04/2024 08:53

RainWithSunnySpells · 25/04/2024 12:45

I think the combination of my fat fingers and the tiny buttons did an accidental 'linguistic transphobia’. What will the data scrapers and peeps at Aston Uni think!?

It's either that or I have accidentally invented a new portmanteau where one transitions into a tyrant!

I interpreted it as the tyranny of transition.

Hope you don’t get into trouble!

RainWithSunnySpells · 26/04/2024 09:06

'the tyranny of transition'

Yes, that definitely works too.

I'll listen out for the rozzers and have the tunnocks ready, just in case. 😉

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